Kesh wrote:
Like "miracle on ice", eh?

I always love this claim, can you just imagine the conversation.

Nixon - Morning, Mr Premire.

Brezhnev - Morning, Mr President.

N - Ummm... Look I'm not sure how to put this.

B - You're fired a nuclear weapon at us by accident?

N - No, No, nothing that serious, it's this race for the moon thing.

B - Oh that. How can we help?

N - Well you see, I've been talking to my guys at NASA and they tell me it just can't be done, but because we don't want to look like losers, we're going to fake it to make it look like we beat you.

B - Ummm... Let me get this right. You want to pretend to beat us, rather then actually beat us?

N - Exactly.

B - You want to fake it and us to just go along with it?

N - Exactly

B - Why?

N - Because we are fooling you into thinking we beat you.

B - But you just told me that you weren't going to really beat us. You know that we have our own space progrm to the moon, I'm assured that the troubles with the N-1 will be sorted out soon.

N - Well yeah. Still at lest we can fool all those silly commoners into thinking we went. And well, we want you to can your project too.

B - You want us to end our attempt to land manned missions to the moon?

N - Well yeah because if you do it after we had to fake it we'd look pretty stupid, so better you don't try and just tell everyone you never were interested in going.

B - So what you're asking us to do is to pretend that you beat us and that we were never going? And the reason for this is that you can then make everyone, including us, believe that you actually did make it?

N - Exactly

B - Why exactly should we agree to this after all we could just carry on and beat you like we have in everything else in space.

N - Um.... Well how about some grain?

B - Grain?

N - yeah Grain. I'll sent you a heap of grain in say... 5 years? How about that?

B - So you give us a heap of grain in 5 years and we keep quiet and scrap our moon project, claiming there wasn't really a race?

N - Exactly.

B - Well, I can't think of a reason why not, you've got yourself a deal, Mr President.

__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

PhantomWolf, that is too funny. LOL!

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If only closed minds came with closed mouths!

You guys have to realize when you are being trolled. The trolls are organized these days, and have web sites where they rate one another's trolling. Yahoo message boards are almost entirely trolls. Dank was a troll, plain and simple.

maybe so, but the conversation between (presumably) Nixon and (I guess) Brezhnev made it all worthwhile. like the cheese thread. we have to let off steam somehow.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

It was obvious from his second or third post that he was just trolling. It was also obvious that he wasn't very good at it.

__________________
"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

Just because a troll started it, it doesn't mean we can't have an engaging discussion.

I agree. Sometimes the trolls get us thinking about things or digging for information we might not have done otherwise. Anytime I learn something new about Apollo I consider it time well spent and a rewarding experience.

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Webmaster, Rocket & Space Technology

One thing I'd have to point out is that apart from the basic themes of this site, I learn a lot about critical thinking, logic and analysis by watching the exchanges between the "trolls" and the many who respond.

Cheers,

I second that, but boy, that learning is a double-edged sword. Today I picked up the Des Moines Register, looked at a column by a well-known syndicated columnist, and was just appalled at the poor quality of his critical thinking, logic, and analysis (not to mention his writing skills). It was the kind of stuff that would easily get you called a troll here, and yet this guy gets paid to do it, and people read it and probably feel really intellectual for doing so.

Depressing.

Dank,

I find your trivilizing of one of the major miles stones in mankind history, reather insulting.

As i've pointed out many times before, there is one thaing that could not be faked and that was that just about every directional radio attena at the time was point as the source of the video and voice tranmissions.

They were all aimed at one spot in space. The moon. Simple telemetry and triangualtion verified that many time over.

Even the USSR attenta's were monitoring the entire afair, and they would have been the very -first- to cry foul if we had tried to fake it.

So lets hear you explaination for the known fact that the voice and data signals you say are faken, originated on the moon and not some close near earth sattalite.

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There is no problem that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives - US Army Demolitions School

I just saw Hayley's comet, she waved, Said "why you always running in place? Even the man in the moon disappeared, Somewhere in the stratosphere" - Shinedown

http://worldsofothersuns.home.comcast.net/

Why don't you all discuss the numerous "documented" wierd UFO sightings by astronauts both in space and on earth. These are really interesting and there is even some good footage of these so called UFO's including some from the Shuttle. Some of these these are tough to explain. I don't know what they are but I'll be arrogant and say only a fool could believe we are alone the universe. Maybe NASA started all these conspiracies themselves, what better way to stay in the spotlight and on peoples minds.

While I don't know which "documented" sightings you mean because your comment is so vauge, all the ones I have seen are easily identified as sun lit debries or ice particles, reflections on windows, or parts of the actual craft themselves. We might not be alone in the universe, but then the universe is extremely big. We might be alone in the galaxy, but then it's pretty big too. The real question is are we alone in our solar system and as of yet there is no solid evidience of anyone else, even just visiting.

Edited to add, no NASA didn't start them.

__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Why don't you all discuss the numerous "documented" wierd UFO sightings by astronauts both in space and on earth.

We do. You'll have to be more specific if you want specific answers. Many of the "documented sightings" from Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo are simply statements that various laymen misunderstand or choose to misrepresent. There are even some wholly fabricated "documented" sightings from Apollo 11 in which "Neil Armstrong" says implausible things like, "those babies are huge!" etc.

There are also statements from Gordo Cooper etc. that are frequently passed about in UFO enthusiast circles but turn out to be far less documented than originally thought.

Some of these these are tough to explain.

Only if you disregard the prosaic possibilities.

...I'll be arrogant and say only a fool could believe we are alone the universe.

It is unlikely we are alone in the universe. Unfortunately the same mathematics that virtually guarantee intelligent life elsewhere in the universe by the same token dictate that it is highly unlikely that any such intelligence has contacted us. One does not have to believe in the claims of alien sightings and visitations in order to believe that aliens exist.

Maybe NASA started all these conspiracies themselves, what better way to stay in the spotlight and on peoples minds.

Interesting.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base