Can I guess? Ya know how sometimes it's the evil aliens that are out to get us? Well, not this time, this time it's the evil government that is out to get us by weaponizing space. Conspiracy du jour. So, who's flying around in those UFOs, CIA spooks?

Am I close, Topsecretsearch? If you're not going to cut to the chase, at least tell me if I'm getting warm, ok?

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

Funny that none of the people I know who worked with von Braun ever mentioned the UFOs...

Personally, I think the Disclosure Project guys sincerely believe this silliness. Probably enough to convince themselves it's OK to fudge up "evidence" as necessary when piling up random facts and gluing them together with innuendo isn't enough...

I've never heard about a commission of the German government into the UFO phenomenon nor one where Oberth was involved. I don't think the German government was interested in UFOs in 1953/54. We had more important and real issues to deal with.
Your "sources" are worthless, as long as they are just other books by UFO nuts. Your sources are as reliable as the usual "I've a friend who's brother has a friend who heard that ..."-hearsay.

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"Flying in space is risky business, but just staying on this planet is risky business too." - John Young, astronaut

Well, if something is written in a book, or even more, written on a website, then it has to be true... right... I mean who would go through the trouble of publishing something if it wasn't true?
sourses are for the close-minded... :roll:

really, though, this guy sounds like a troll to me. When every reply is another woo-woo quote....

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"If we ask for something more than simplicity, it is silly then to complain that the something more is not simple." C.S. Lewis

Actually, in the late 70's, my 8th grade math teacher informed us that she grew up next to the Von Brauns. As a fan of the space program, I listened with wrap attention to her stories of the man. Evidently he was quite proficient at swearing, both in German and in English, and would often swear out loud, at length, outside where she could hear. She also told us that he was very to the point, very impatient, and very intolerable of anyone who didn't see things his way. If her accounts are true, and I've no reason to believe otherwise, Werner may very well have been eccentric enough to believe in a few other things.

As for being able to stop aliens... If their purpose is peaceful exploration, why would they be carrying weapons? If they figured out a way to move a starship from point A to point B in less time than it takes light to travel the same distance (notice I didn't say they designed a ship that travels faster than light...), that doesn't necessarily mean they have nuclear or other weapons on board, and their craft may be quite susceptible to space-based weapons.


If, in fact, Werner Von Braun actually made this comment, he may very well be talking about our since made public top secret research program we know as the Skunworks, which, in 1959 was busy designing the SR-71 using technology that simply wasn't yet available to your average rocket scientist. Being German and speaking English with a heavy accent, he may have simply mistranslated his thoughts, using "stronger" instead of a more appropriate word. The supposed "base" could very well have been either Dreamland or Tonopah, both TS-classified bases at the time.

Again, IF in fact he made that statement, this would be a much more plausible conclusion that the one's espoused on the websites to which tsresearch keeps referring.

Regarding this source: http://www.disclosureproject.org/cosmicdeception.htm

It's full of holes in his logic.

First, if it's the administrations goal to create fear of aliens, why didn't they use the Columbia disaster as a cover for an alien attack on our space program?

Second... Well, it's there for you to read, so let's all take a hack at it!

What, are we going to try to bring democracy to the aliens.? I dont think they have any oil and I'm sure they have weapons of mass destruction.

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"Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible." - M. C. Escher

"Freedom is popular." -Ron Paul

A spacecraft that can travel interstellar space and (presumably) uses fusion or other advanced propulsion is inherently a weapon. If you can accelerate anything a reasonable amount, you have the ability to throw rocks at the earth. We might be able to stop one modest asteroid with a decade or two to prepare. However, if, say, a dozen came our way, we would be out of luck, as we would if one just "happened" to change course when we had no time to prepare.

It is pretty much a given that when we do have spacecraft traveling at high speed through the solar system, they will need to be tracked and regulated carefully. Every high delta-v spacecraft would be a potential WMD.

And when we are talking about hypothetical aliens, that is just one of the more obvious issues. It is a given that their technology would be far beyond ours. What if they can build anything they want on the spot? I would expect they could do things we couldn't predict.

As for being susceptible to our weapons: Space is big. Really, really big. If they fly right up to one of our hypothetical space weapons and moon it, we might have a chance. Otherwise, forget it. That isn't even getting into the purpose of the various weapon systems we are talking about - such as extremely specialized non-nuclear weapons designed to neutralize ballistic missiles.

Von Braun would have understood the math better than I do. He might have been eccentric, but he wasn't foolish. If there are technological ETs around, and they wish to destroy us, we are gone. No science fiction movie super weapon would save us. That's all this is: Bad science fiction.

Yep, any beings technologically advanced enough to traverse the galaxy would be so far beyond us that any weapons we might put into orbit would be useless against them. No, the weaponization of space is strictly a terrestrial power play, IMO.

Van Rijn is correct, "If there are technological ETs around, and they wish to destroy us, we are gone."

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

It's hard to imagine what kind of weapons such aliens would posses or how good their defences would be against our weapons(given they wouldn't know in advance what to expect). While I think that FTL travel in itself doesn't make you omnipotent, I'm pretty sure the aliens could wipe us out if they were determined to do so(occupation without global destruction would be another thing).

Then again: "if it bleeds, we can kill it"

What exactly are you trying to say topsecretsearch? All I can tell is that

-you believe that E.Ts exist
-the government is trying to build space weapons to counteract these E.Ts
-A bunch of people from the space program are in on the project

Is this right? Enlighten me TSS. Help me help you

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here we go, the world is spinning
when it stops, it's just beginning

sun comes up, we laugh and we cry
sun goes down, and then we all die

Touched by his noodly appendage

Very good. This is the type of debunking I expected from this Bulletin Board.
But it's not good enough..... let's review some incriminating sources that match witness testimony and written publications:

Spacelift Washington: National Security Space Needs May Drive Bush Space Policy - A Special White Paper Background Report

Rumsfeld's report blasted the Clinton administration's management of military space issues. "The current interagency process is inadequate to address the number, range, and complexity of today's space issues", the report says.
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Rumsfeld the key?

Rumsfeld brings his strong views on defense-related space issues to the Pentagon formed over years of previous service. But his views on the role and importance of the civil space program might also be worth reviewing in the days and months ahead. In the spring of 1963 congressional critics of Project Apollo made what would turn out to be their last major attempt to either kill or redirect the moon landing. In an attachment to a report by the House Committee on Science and Astronautics (H.R. 7500, House Report 591), six dissenting Republicans proposed that military space needs-not the lunar landing goal- be at the center of the U.S. space program. While they said they supported Apollo "because there exists no other comparable program to develop space technologies at this time", they categorized the Apollo mission as mainly one of "largely prestige" without lasting significance to the U.S. space program. Wrote one of the dissenters: "This country should direct itself toward (military development of) inner space* (*defined as 500 miles up and lower) and not place our top priority in the direction of the Moon." The name of that dissenter 38 years ago? A Congressman from Illinois named Donald H. Rumsfeld.

"This country should direct itself toward (military development of) inner space*"

The name of that dissenter 38 years ago? A Congressman from Illinois named Donald H. Rumsfeld.

Donald Rumsfeld was a counselor to President Nixon. In 1968 he sat on the House of Representatives Committee on Science and Astronautics Symposium on UFOs. Now as Secretary of Defense under President Bush he has promoted a new generation of Star Wars. Rumsfeld (right) is seen in 1975 with Dick Cheney. As aides to the President Gerald Ford they advised him to veto the new Freedom of Information Act, which came about as a result of the Watergate scandal.

Rumsfeld was J. Allen Hynek's congressman prior to his entering the Nixon White House. He introduced J. Allen Hynek at the 1968 Symposium on UFOs. When Rumsfeld became Secretary of Defense under President Ford, Hynek approached Rumsfeld and said that he spent many years working as a consultant to the UFO Project Blue Book. He said after all those years he had a right to know the whole UFO story.

And of course as you know, the once adamant UFO debunker who met with Donald Rumsfeld became a true believer.

J. Allen Hynek

Wait. I thought you said you were here for:

Now it sounds more like you're here to make us think a certain way.

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"My first time was a pitch to the General Aseembly to make the case that some UFOs are ET Spacecraft and should be of interest to all Earthlings. I noted BLue Book Special Report No. 14, The UFO Evidence; The Congressional Hearings of July 29,1968; Hynek's "The UFO Experience" and the Condon Report.." -- Stanton Friedman Q&A on addressing the UN.

I'm simply presenting coincidences. You have to draw your own conclusions.

I think the whole gist of the testimony was in order to fuel this out of control military industrial complex you need a never ending supply of conflict and war.
This certainly reflects the current administration.

I believe in order to keep secrets such as a ET crash retrieval.
Only a few people are briefed on what they need to know.
Others are told LIES in order to keep the status quo.

If advanced ET beings are observing the Earth they can remain stealth and you would only see the occasional UFO demonstarting highly advanced propulsion.

TSS, That makes no sense. If advanced ETs knew enough about how to overcome the barriers of distance in space, they would probably know enough about how to cloak their propulsion systems.

I suggest you read the BA's book Bad Astronomy for an excellent debunking of UFOs

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here we go, the world is spinning
when it stops, it's just beginning

sun comes up, we laugh and we cry
sun goes down, and then we all die

Touched by his noodly appendage

That's easy, you haven't presented any hard evidence to show it's anything but a coincidence.

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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Neptune- The original Dark Matter.

The author feels that this technique of deliberately lying will actually make it easier for you to learn the ideas. - Donald Knuth

Coincidence and conspiracy is really all topsecretsearch has. Here he is over on the Above Top Secret forum. I gather that we're the "forum of de-bunkers".

I think that this thread offers some enlightenment where hammo1j describes the "new paradigm" for our "new age":

Aside to hammo1j...I love "Wooccam's Razor"!

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

"would probably" and that's coming from a more primitive human.

Yes, I posted this subject on a lot of forums to get different perspectives. 8) And get the word out.
Notice the response about Dr. Carol Rosin.

The type of evidence you wish for would never see the light of day because of national security implications.
I'm talking about a dead alien body or parts from an ET craft.

The best thing to do if you come across that type of evidence is go into a public, high traffic area so people can film and take photo's, grab samples and sheer pandamonium brakes lose where the government can not contain it, resulting in full disclosure.

THIS IS A SPECIAL REPORT.
Live from Washington DC, The President of The United States.
Citizens of the United States, you have been aware of recent incidents that have now transpired, there has been much speculation as news make its way around the World, I would like to confirm that Yes we are being visited by Extra-terrestrials and have been for some time now......we are not alone in the Universe....

The problem is, there are some *major problems* with conspiracy theories in general:

1) Such theories tend to be difficult to understand, enigmatic in and of themselves, a veritable maze of convolutions.
2) They contain all sorts of interesting clues and leads which need to be investigated to render 'the truth". There always seems to be just one more lead that needs to be followed up.
3) They usually deal with some "terrible truth" about our society and it's short comings.
4) There is never any real way to verify the conspiracy theory (ie, not falsifiable).

This mode of operation, in no way shape or form, can serve to lead us to any verifiable conclusions. In other words, it's not scientific.

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

So in conclusion, you have no evidence.

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Its better tae meddle wi the deil............

And I would further add, so what if this is true.

Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that some alien craft landed, the government scientists secretly studied it, and Donald Rumsfeld knows all about it. But they are never going to revel any of this information to the public, then are never going to use the information to make anything the public is going to see or know about and your website is certainly not going to change their minds about it. So how is this going to change my life in any way. :-?

(and don't take any of that speculation as evidence that I believe one bit of that story)

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

So in conclusion, you have no evidence.

Which to a conspiracist is irrefutable proof.


On another note.
Crashed ships and bodies. Those would be nice to have. Lots of science could be done with that. Pity.

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The law requires that I answer no!

Well, it seems likely that if their technology is so far ahead of us and they don't want to be seen, they likely have it in their power to cloak their propulsion systems.

Besides, what would us earthlings have that is so important to aliens that they need to moniter us?
Water? Plenty of Oort cloud objects ripe for the taking that are just balls of ice
Any ideas or theories?

And so what if they want to hide the discovery of aliens. The idea of extra-terrestrial life is life-changing - it will change the way we think. Naturally it could spark mass controversy and fear. Wouldn't it seem more logical for the government to reveal what secrets about UFOs they're hiding when we are ready for it?

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here we go, the world is spinning
when it stops, it's just beginning

sun comes up, we laugh and we cry
sun goes down, and then we all die

Touched by his noodly appendage