Sounds better (and more accurate) than how he was described on CTV... they called him an "investigative reporter". Makes me sick. They should be calling him what he really is: a stalker.


Kel

I have very little problem with the cnn.com story (actually from the Rueters news service). The part snipped out in the post above points out that Sibrel wanted to use the footage in a new film... a fact, presented in an evenhanded way, that is pretty condemning of Sibrel's behavior.

__________________
PC load letter? What the @%$# does that mean?

Mind you, in any court of law in this country (even Los Angeles county), a judge will simply take judicial notice of the fact that we've gone to the Moon. For instance, you need not prove when the sun rose on a given day - you don't get to argue that in court - the Judge simply accepts that it rose at 7:13 am or whatever. You don't get to argue whether it was raining or not.

Likewise, in any suit, the Fool won't get the chance to make the court room a place to make his case to the public. The Judge will simply make a finding of fact, through Judicial Notice, that we've been to the Moon.

If the Fool has a problem with that, he can take it to an appeals court, and waste time and money having the state intermediate and Supreme Courts agree that it was not "clear error" for the Judge at the trial level to have taken such notice.

[Hey everyone! It's a voice from the distant past - Rubysue - who vowed to stay away from this board many months ago after having a lovely exchange of serious discussions with the erudite intellectual Piper. How is everyone who remembers me, by the way?]

Go get 'em Buzz! Sibrel deserves much more than just a sock to the jaw. I wouldn't mess with Buzz. I've actually met Dr. Aldrin. Although he is quite short, he is in excellent physical condition for his age and has a fire in his eyes, particularly when an idiotarian opens his or her mouth. If someone came up to me and harassed me and told me that he didn't believe that I did something that I KNOW I had done, I would be quite tempted to smack him into the ground and spit on him.

Sibrel is a delusional maniac who should be locked up; he may "stalk" the wrong astronaut one of these days, who might just shoot before answering. What a maroon....

Well, the good news is that if Sibrel does pursue this I'm sure there'll be no shortage of lawyers willing to defend Buzz for free.

Hmmm... The Moon trial, now on Court T.V.!!! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] hehe... I wonder if Sibrel is going to get the descendent of William Jennings Brian to fight for him?

Who knows, maybe, just maybe, fox will do a new show: "When hoaxers go bad! Today on When Hoaxers go bad, You will see the most annoying, the most hideous perople we know (and we know some prety bad people). Also you will hear some of the most intelectually mind numbing theories known to mankind. See exiting video of Hoaxers making up their own photos of faked moon landings!! See them get punched in the face!! (Yay [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]) At the end, one Hoaker will get voted off the earth by your fellow peers and get sent to the moon on a originaly apollo craft, let them see that it really did happen!"

Ahhh...We can dream can't we.... [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

_________________
"Watch out for falling coconuts!!"
"It takes Thousands to fight a battle for a mile, Millions to hold an election for a nation, but it only takes One to change the world."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: g99 on 2002-09-10 23:22 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: g99 on 2002-09-10 23:24 ]</font>

Gotta go with Buzz on this one. Sibrel's repeated antics over the years place him not too far from being a stalker in the legal sense I would imagine. Buzz can make a good case for Self Defense here if Sibrel is unwise enough to take it to court. Even if Buzz had complied and sworn on the Bible, Sibrel would just have put the footage in his movie with a voiceover that Buzz was "lying on the Bible, for shame, for shame" or some other such wailing lament and ranting. Ol Buzz had to eat a crap sandwich no matter which way this went down. At least if this shows up in the next hoax film, Buzz will have the satisfaction of knowing Sibrel paid for the footage in pain.

Sorry for the hideously long link, but I recalled this classic New Yorker cartoon.

http://www.cartoonbank.com/cartoon_c...Only=&s_topic=

I too am worried that HBs will say look now the only way they can defend their arguments is by hitting investigators..but the comes a limit to what you can take i guess.

The reuters article has some interesing content :
"Bart Sibrel, an independent filmmaker from Nashville, Tennessee, said he was trying to conduct an AMBUSH interview with Aldrin outside a hotel in Beverly Hills on Monday when the astronaut punched him and ran away.
"
An ambush interview eh? Well i agree that it wa an ambush but i doubt there would have been much of an interview whatever happened.

"I approached him and asked him again to swear on a Bible that he went to the moon, and told him he was a THIEF for taking money to give an interview for something he didn't do," Sibrel told Reuters."
So according to sibrel Buzz Aldrin is a thief now too. Not a legal type but isnt that slander?

I can see how any police interview may go though:
"So Mr Sibrel you alledge Mr Aldrin assulted you?"
"Yes"
"Mr aldrin, how hard did Mr Sibrel headbutt your fist?" [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

I hope the next time Buzz also places his boot firmly enough onto Sibrel's butt to leave an everlasting imprint...

Harald

With all of the media coverage of this I wish Jim Lovell's lawyer would have let kaysing's libel case go to trial.
Might have given give Buzz more ammunition if sibrel actually presses charges.

Its very frustrating that sibrel was able to con so many news organizations into reporting this.

I guess from his perspective the ambush could not have turned out any better. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]

I wish Buzz hadn't landed that punch but I sure do understand his reaction.

[added line breaks]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SpacedOut on 2002-09-11 06:48 ]</font>

Aldrin missed the golden opportunity to say "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for kicking your ***!"


-Adam

"BREAKING NEWS!" BA, is that a pun?

Based on the hotel employee asking Sibrel to leave a hotel guest alone and to just leave, he could be charged with trespass (again). Since he refused to leave the hotel property and continued badgering Buzz... physically confronting him and making verbal accusations... Buzz probably has a good defense. Assuming this ever goes to trial (and it's really Sibrel's call, not the DA's), all Buzz has to do is request a jury trial. (Can a jury find the "victim" guilty?)

(Welcome back, Rubysue!)

__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

Aldrin may not have put the first footprint on "the" moon so he'll have to settle for the first foot print on "a" moon. I know bad joke but the door was open [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

I doubt if there will be anything in court but I have fantasies of Judge Judy taking the case.

__________________
If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the precipitate.

Well I just tried this and it didn't seem to work. Here goes again.

This is the address for an article on Sibrel's ambush from his hometown paper. They seem to know a little about him already.

http://www.tennessean.com/nation-wor...nt-ID=22249636

Next week on Fox: Celebrity Boxing! Featuring, Bart "the Weasel" Sibrel vs. Buzz "What, You Want Some More of This?" Aldrin. Despite being nearly twice the age of Sibrel, Aldrin is favored 69 to 1.


B.E

I'm glad a few of our board members commented that the punch was not the best response. I'm sorry to gripe about the 'guy response' here guys, but it boggles my mind that any adult considers physical force, (excluding self defense and mutual assured destruction), as a method of resolving conflict.

I understand the reponse, the loss of control, all that aspect. But, come on, wouldn't a "you're an idiot" have been more effective? How about, "get a degree in geology, study the Moon rocks we brought back, and then come talk to me".

Losing contol just looks so dumb. Getting the upper hand with intelligent witty comments seems soooo much better.

PS: BA, I hope you were being sarcastic with the 'breaking news' title. Egad, I can't be the only one laughing everytime I hear that term. Are the folks selling the news such idiots they think we believe it or are the folks watching the news that dumb they do believe it?

Oh, I'm just so negative here. Well, maybe if I don't make a habit of it.....

__________________
~~ ><>><> ~~ ><,,> ><,,> ...`;=;p d;=;' /\/\^/\ ^^ ^/\/\_
Democracy Now! - The lost art of investigative news reporting.

I agree, Aldrin shouldn't have swung. But I can certainly understand popping this hulking jerk who is harrassing a 72-year-old man and his niece and calling him a liar.

No, it wasn't the best reaction. But punching a cheesy, obnoxious fraud like Sibrel is an appropriate reaction. Of course, Sibrel hoped to provoke something like it, and thus got more or less what he wanted, but:

Watching the video, it is clear to any but the most willfully deluded HBer who is acting like a jerk (Sibrel) and who is not. It won't convince anyone there's a conspiracy who isn't already convinced; as already pointed out, there is nothing Aldrin could have done that would have not been converted to "evidence" in the cramped little minds of the HBers. So, in the end, what difference does it really make?

YAY RUBYSUE!!! I've been wondering where you went to. I even e-mailed you about a month ago, but didn't get a reply.

Welcome back to the BABB. The BA has some much easier ways to ID and Ban posters like Piper and such, so depending on what you want to get involved in, discussion wise, you can usually avoid such encounters.

Hope you are here to stay.

CJSF

__________________
Two years ago moved from my town
I was looking up past the city lights
But the city lights got in my way

See the constellation ride across the sky
No cigar, no lady on his arm
Just a guy made of dots and lines

-from "See The Constellation"
by They Might Be Giants

Sibrel lured Buzz to the hotel under false pretenses (lied to him and set him up).

Buzz attempted to walk away and Sibrel got in his way... even following him into the street, blocking his path and harrassing him.

A hotel employee got between them and told Sibrel to go away and leave Buzz alone. Sibrel did not.

Buzz attempted to go back into the hotel and Sibrel again blocked his path, continued his verbal harrassment and (according to at least one account) thrust a Bible at Buzz, striking him with it.

Sibrel is younger, taller and heavier than Buzz, presenting a very noticeable physical threat.

All of this easily meets the legal definition of assault. If Sibrel did strike Buzz with the Bible, it becomes battery.

Buzz had every reason and legal defense to strike Sibrel. Words had failed to keep Sibrel away, a second party had failed to keep him away, Buzz was not allowed to simply walk away, and he felt a physical threat to himself and his niece.

This isn't a macho thing. It's understandable and defensible.

__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

Understandable and perhaps defensible, but it still wasn't the best course of action. Sibrel was there to get "incriminating" footage for his next load o' celluloid crap. And punching him on camera is the WORST thing Aldrin would want to do in that situation. If he walks away, he has all the legal cards.

__________________
PC load letter? What the @%$# does that mean?

Buzz DID walk away, and Sibrel ambushed him again. What Buzz did was entirely justified, and I'm glad he did it, if for no other reason than it shows how silly these HBs are.



Anyway, if it goes to trial, I want to handle Buzz's defense. First, I'd show Sibrel's film, and then I'd show the videotaped evidence and start on the "well we can obviously see this was faked because......."



I'd love to watch Sibrel's face as his own tactics are used against him.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tomblvd on 2002-09-13 06:46 ]</font>

ROFL!! HA! That's great ... I'm in tears after reading this


B.E.

From the link that Papa Bear provided:

"[Sibrel] said the punch he alleges Aldrin took only shows Aldrin knows the landing was a lie."

Well, golly, we didn't pick that one, did we...

(sigh)

... but can he prove the punch landed? Sorry, sorry... I couldn't resist....

__________________
PC load letter? What the @%$# does that mean?

If there isn't a crater, and the bruises don't run parallel, probably not.

[left out a word -- inserted]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Papa Bear on 2002-09-11 20:56 ]</font>

Too bad he didn't confront Alan Shepherd. Shepherd coulda nailed him with his six-iron.

[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Or Ed Mitchell with a javelin.

Or Jack Schmitt with a geology hammer.

Or (evil grin) Gene Cernan with a gravimeter (how much did that weigh?).

Hi All!

First, regarding legal issues. It is not up to Sibrel to decide for pressing criminal charges. True, Sibrel must press charges or the DA does not have a case, but for criminal charges it is the DA's call even if Sibrel wants to press forward. The DA's office will collect evidence (including interviewing both parties and all identifiable witnesses), and then make a determination of whether criminal charges are warranted. If so, then they will proceed to a Grand Jury and convince them whether a case is warranted.

Now a civil suit is totally up to Sibrel getting a lawyer. Of course that one would have lots of possible outcomes, including finding for the defendant, or finding for the plaintiff but not awarding any damages.

Second, let's not be hasty to judge Aldrin one way or the other. So far I've seen at least two differing accounts, but all accounts certainly show Sibrel to be an ***. However, being an *** doesn't justify getting slugged. Threatening and harassing, on the other hand, could warrant it, and some versions do show plenty of justification that Sibrel was threatening and harassing and assaulting Aldrin.

In fact, the DA as mentioned above could determine that Sibrel warrants charges of assault. They would likely be misdemeanor assault charges (I'm no attorney, so I could be wrong), and would probably depend upon Aldrin supporting them.

At this point, none of us can judge what happened because we weren't there and aren't privy to all the details. While slugging him just for saying, "Hey, swear on this bible, or you're a liar," is pretty thin, decking him for "I'm towering over you and screaming in your face and not going to leave you alone and not going to let you pass" is justified, as self defense. Remember, all it has to be for self defense is for Aldrin to have felt threatened. Sibrel did not have to intend to hurt Aldrin, just Aldrin thinking he might.

As for the level of response, Aldrin didn't pound him into the ground, or break his wrist, or give him a concussion, or keep hitting and kicking him. It was one punch that got Sibrel to back off and let Aldrin and his neice go on their way. That's a measured response if Aldrin and/or his neice felt threatened.

On another note, the incident made Jay Leno tonight. He didn't even bother to mention Sibrel by name, just described him as an idiot who thinks the moon landings were faked. And he had the video, but no sound. I suspect this will get mentioned again tomorrow.

Jay Leno showed the video?