Just heard from two sources that it seems that Bart Sibrel tried again to do his nasty business with Buzz Aldrin and after some accusitions, Buzz knocked him (down?)

I'm usually against violence, but having children I also know situations where it is to much and the last word blows the collar (as we say in German).

Bravo Buzz, though I know it will not change anything for the HBs except they will put a twist into this taht will support their belief.

Harald

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Yea. Sibril was on Good Morning America. You can download footage if you pay for it. 'Course if it's footage of Sibril getting hit, it would be well worth it at twice the price!

I'm going to save that footage on a CD... and link to it on my website. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Good for Buzz. I would have done the same thing. Sibrel has been hounding all of the Apollo astronauts and he deserved a good punch in the nose.

Of course Sibrel will use it against Aldrin. He'll use it as proof that Buzz is hiding something.

Aldrin now has two incidents with Sibrel on video. I'm sure he can now easily get a restraining order (maybe it will be extended to cover all Apollo astronauts).


Kel

Buzz is my hero!!!!!!!!!
I especially like the idea of a 72 year old pushing around a 37 year old loudmouth.

ABC News on-demand video page. Not sure if I'll sign up but seeing 'ol Bart getting smacked by Buzz might be worth it. At least ABC put a neutral to correct slant (IMHO) on the encounter "Buzz Aldrin hits pesky moon-landing skeptic in the face"

Now that I've had time to think about this there is no need to sign up for ABC's service - Bart will probably post the video on his site along side his video of his first encounter with Buzz Aldrin. Probably by the end of the day.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SpacedOut on 2002-09-10 12:47 ]</font>

Wasn't Sibrel arrested for trespassing on Armstrong's property at one point? (I may be thinking of somebody else.) I wonder if he's just doing this for shock value to spice things up. I don't think he'd be stupid enough to press charges on Buzz.

__________________
If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the precipitate.

Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin? AFAIK, some years ago he legally changed his name to Buzz.

I guess, Buzz will receive a few congratulatory mails from former colleagues the next days...

Harald

Or tell him yourself at:
http://www.buzzaldrin.com/contact/

Yes, Bart Sibrel was arrested for trespassing on Neil Armstrong's property ostensibly to obtain Armstrong's reaction to his charges. As a result Sibrel was fired from his job as a part-time cameraman for the Nashville, Tenn., NBC affiliate. Astronaut Ed Mitchell reported that Sibrel and his crew confronted him claiming to be from the Discovery Channel and then sprung the hoax trap on him.

I have no legal training, but it appears to me that Sibrel's behavior is tortious, Aldrin's alleged battery notwithstanding. Do repeated accusations of lying qualify as harassment? In any case, requesting on-camera interviews under false pretenses is manipulative at best and unlawful at worst.

Unfortunately this, like all similar incidents, will simply be spun to convince Sibrel and his followers that he's onto something. Conspiracy theorists generally can't understand that they're annoying. So any objection or defensiveness is simply interpreted as confirmation that they're touching a nerve. They're touching a nerve, all right, but not the one they aimed for.

Prince posted this link on another forum:

http://www.rense.com/general29/moonads.htm

"Moon landing astronaut Buzz Aldrin landed a solid left hook to the face area of a moon-landing skeptic that 'ambushed' him...

The physical exchange may have happened at a downtown hotel somewhere near California..."

__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

I wonder how Sibrel would react if someone publicly accused him of fraud and stuck a camera and a Bible in his face to get a reaction. Technically, he has committed fraud - perhaps not criminal - but he is charging money for something purported to be that which it is demonstrably not.

Unfortunately, the few people who bought his video were probably already convinced of a lunar hoax, so don't see it as fraudulent at all. What needs to happen is for a bunch of people to buy the video and file a class action suit against Sibrel. These scam artists need to be put in their place in a more effective way than a whack upside the head.

I saw the video on sky news here in the uk earlier. Buzz (who chnged his name in 1979 IIRC) lands a solid punch on sibrel but the incident is slightly blocked be a crowd of people from the footage i saw. I did see sibrel afterwards asking the cameraman wheter he had got it all on tape. Its not clear what sibrel said to aldrin on the tape i saw either. If i had been accused by someone of lying to everyone on the planet for 30 years and been essentially ( and falsely )accused of being involved in murdering collegues then id be rather displeased with my accuser too.

I hope Buzz's hand is OK.

Houston, the Eagle has landed a punch.

Paul "one of these days, Bart POW! TO THE MOON!" Unwin

Heh, heh... good one, Paul. I would only add a paraphrase of a statement once made by noted philosopher Clint Eastwood:

"He needed punchin'."

I'm disappointed that this debate has escalated to physical violence. Sibrel is a master at playing confrontations to his advantage, which is why he has chosen a misleading and confrontational method of approaching the Apollo astronauts. Unfortunately people like Sibrel and his followers don't understand how ludicrous and ill-supported their charges are, and so can interpret violent and defensive responses only as confirmation of their own misguided beliefs.

I have no sympathy for Mr. Sibrel. He has chosen to make his living by parasitical attachment, and he should not be surprised when the host removes the parasite by whatever means present themselves. And I have great sympathy for Aldrin. He has had to endure Sibrel's public ridicule of him for some time, and one cannot be expected to suffer being called a liar and a thief incessantly. Further, Sibrel's deceptive tactics (he approaches the astronauts claiming to be from the Discovery Channel) leave him very little moral ground to stand on.

However by giving in to rage Aldrin has just provided Sibrel with more ammunition. Sibrel wanted nothing more than to have the astronauts respond to his Bible request with defensiveness, confusion, and other undignified responses.

I went to Buzz's website and dropped him an email, telling him who I am and that I would be willing to help in any way I can. I imagine he is flooded with emails right now, so I don't expect a reply, but I feel obligated to try. Jay, you might want to as well.

I also put some links I found on my website's home page. Click the logo at the top of this page to see them.

This event will give HBs more ammunition to use against NASA and the Apollo astronauts. It will also be used to confirm in the HBs minds that they are on to something. The event will probably be seen in videos and published in books to support the HBs arguments.

Was it worth it? You bet. Go Buzz. Next time, make sure you have a baseball bat handy. All the arguments in the world won't persuade the HBs.

As Von Braun said, 'I'd exchange 100 good ideas for one good, hard smack in the mouth.'

Or something like that.

You think after John Glenn clocked a guy on the Capitol steps who took a swing and him in the late 1980s (and flattened him), you think these guys who know not to mess with astronauts.

And, yah, I hope Buzz's hand is alright, too.

Oh yeah, and don't worry about Buzz being prosecuted on this one. LA County's DA's office has plenty of murders to deal with and a well-deserved punch in the face isn't going to amount to a thing.

Actually, I'd love to see the incident go to court. It would be hilarious if Aldrin's attorney could turn the whole proceedings into a trial of the Moon Hoax itself. Just how far do you think Sibrel's nonsense would get in a court of law?

On the other hand, I agree with Jay's sentiments. The punch may have been as well-deserved as any in history (was it, in fact, the ultimate dope-slap?), but it would have been better for all concerned if Aldrin had been able to contain his (well-justified) frustration.

I'm going to have to side with JayUtah, Donnie B. and Ghandi on this one. Lots of people in this world deserve a good butt-kicking, but that doesn't give others the license to administer it. Further, it certainly will provide the HB crowd with more anti-Apollo ammunition... as if HBs really needed any more ad hominem tactics in their bags of tricks.

__________________
PC load letter? What the @%$# does that mean?

I'm not a lawyer, but I have had some legal training...

There is a "prominent public figure" standard that makes it very hard for famous persons to sue for libel. For instance, it's very difficult for Madonna to sue me if I refer to her as a "slut." In the same vein, it would be almost impossible for Buzz Aldrin to sue this Sibrel slut just for callin him a liar.

This is actually a good thing, as it protects people who write reviews of movies. Suppose I said, "Pluto Nash is a really crappy movie," and thus was open to a lawsuit for defamation. Unpleasant. So, the common law has, wisely, made reviews of prominently public affairs protected against ordinary lawsuits.

Popping a guy with a good right cross, alas, doesn't fall into this class of exemption.

Still, at an emotional level, I'm with Buzz!

"Pow! To the Moon!"

Silas

For instance, it's very difficult for Madonna to sue me if I refer to her as a "slut."

You'd better darn well hope so!!!

I agree that this is going to give ammo to the HB's, but a guy can only take so much provocation before he gives in to the anger.

Plus there may have been a bit of fear in Aldrins actions... he's 72, a good deal shorter than Sibrel, and a lot lighter. Sibrel must have been a little threatening. He was also blocking the entrance to what was basically Aldrins home, which to me would add to the justification for a little force.

I taped the news report of the Aldrin/Sibrel incident. I watched it a couple of times and recorded as accurate a transcript as I could.

Sibrel confronts Aldrin in the street.

Sibrel: "Why don't you swear on the bible that you walked on the moon?"

Aldrin turns to walk away.

Aldrin: "Why don't you turn those off... turn them off..." (talking to the camera operators)

Hotel staff get between Aldrin and Sibrel and attempt to ask Sibrel to leave.

The video cuts to Aldrin and Sibrel standing at the top of some stairs at the hotel entrance.

Aldrin: "Will you get away from me?" (the strain in his voice is evident)

Sibrel: "You are a coward and a liar and a..."

At this point Aldrin punches Sibrel in the jaw with a right hook and then enters the hotel.

Sibrel: "Did you get that?" (looking at the camera with a strange smile on his face)


Kel

GO GET HIM BUZZ!!!

Form a line...

__________________
Bailey’s second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

Hmmmm. The coward and liar remarks may weaken Sibrel's case. Depending on how he delivered them--was he up in Aldrin's face? Was he blocking his path?--it could fit the legal definition of assualt: threat of physical violence. For instance, it's assualt if I scream at someone, yelling obscenities in his or her face. But it's battery if I actually slug them. So... at the very least... perhaps Aldrin can get Sibrel in trouble with the law. And because the altercation took place on private property (and the hotel staff asked Sibrel to leave? That's important....), it's also tresspassing. Sibrel doesn't really know what he's doing; it strikes me that he was trying to spark a confrontation (hence the strange smile), but that he didn't know the law very well.

If you're going to pull the "he attacked me" card, you have to be on public property (sidewalk works nicely) and not be anywhere near the legal definition of assault. So I hope his jaw hurts like a mutha....

__________________
PC load letter? What the @%$# does that mean?

It's hit the mainstream media.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html


"Independent filmmaker". Huh. Makes him sound like one of those Sundance Festival types... [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]