Saturn V, there have been several substantial posts including definitive and conclusive rebuttals to your points raised so far. You have failed to address them, either to offer the requested evidence, to address the rebuttal points, or to concede your arguments. Conversation with you has ceased to be an intellectual process. Please deal with the arguments already made before moving on to new territory. Perhaps you think that if you throw enough mud against the wall some of it will stick. That's not how it works. Many of us are professionals in the fields associated with rocket science. We are not swayed by your arguments, nor do we believe you understand what you are talking about. Please either support your points or withdraw them.

IIRC, around one percent of the energy of the fuel was turned into "sound".

Saturn V, changing the content of your posts is malicious and rude. That is not what editing is for. Editing is to allow you to correct typos, fix broken links, and the like. If you wish to alter the meaning of your post, do so in a new message.

I am emailing the BA to inform him of your behavior.

Now, regarding your 14 points, or whatever the current version is. It has been pointed out that you do not have even the most basic understanding of the nature of engineering. Problems are a basic component of devising a new system. Complex machinery always has problems develop that were either not foreseen or else not known the manner they would manifest. That is the purpose for testing. Engineers test the equipment and systems to bring out the problems, so they can be identified and then fixed. This is especially the case for something as large scale and complex as Apollo. Having problems only means you are figuring out how to do it. Engineering is taking the problems and then determining how to fix them.

Your items 13 and 14 consist of
You fail to explain how these are anomalies that prove Apollo didn't happen rather than proof that Apollo did happen.

Gus Grissom was one of the Mercury 7. He was also a top notch astronaut and was likely to have been the commander of the first lunar landing mission.

Von Braun was a rocketing genius. Yes, he was German. He also inspired many ideas for space exploration.

Regarding Kaptain K's comments about the lethal sound, once again you demonstrate you know nothing about the subject. What is sound? It is vibrations of the air (or other medium; commonly and in this case air is the relevant medium). The vibrations he is talking about are not "stereo on 10" vibrations, but full-fledged rip your internal organs to shreds vibrations. Like slamming your body repeatedly with a semi-truck from each direction. You can't protect yourself with some ear plugs.

So how did the astronauts survive? Note that they are inside the pressurized rocket, and inside their space suits. Note that they are at the top of the stack, with the engines at the bottom. Note that the sound mostly radiates outward and downward.

Also, I have to say I was disappointed. I was expecting new anomalies - you promised us new ones, not rehashes of old material.

I guess this is one time I can claim some first hand experience of a topic on this board, and I can tell SV that within 10 feet of a rocket engine, at full chat, is not somewhere any sane person would want to be.
Back in the late fifties I was a frequent visitor the SBAC Farnborough Air Show in the UK and at that time all the latest technology was on show including the use of rocket engines in aircraft. On several occasions the rocket engines were ignited at what seemed head height within about quarter to half a mile of the crowd. This was done I suppose, as a 'crowd pleaser' and one particular aircraft, the Saunders-Roe SR53 would be stood on end and disappear vertically on a long plume of flame with a diamond patterned shock wave in the exhaust flame.
These were engines producing about 4 to 8 thousand pounds thrust and the noise and vibration was incredible.The shock waves could be felt beating against your chest and most of the crowd were reduced to holding their heads in defence. I know that it sure impressed the hell out of me but I wouldn't have wanted to be any closer, even with ear plugs.

One of my lifetime regrets was that I never got to see a S-V lift off, but a shuttle launch was a good substitute. At 3 miles away on KSC's causeway, that was close enough too.
DK

SaturnV, you have been asked repeatedly not to continually alter your posts. I myself have asked you twice. I will say it one more time, simply, clearly, and not politely this time:

STOP ALTERING YOUR OLD POSTS!

As Irishman said above, it's rude and confusing. If you have anything new to say, say it in a new post. But leave the original as is. The BA has been notified. Ignore this advice at your own peril.

__________________
...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

First, ear plugs would be useless at those sound levels. You would need more sophisticated ear protection.
Second, it's not just about sound levels. It's also about large, rapid pressure changes where any type of sound protection would have little effect.

__________________
If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the precipitate.

Try this experiment Saturn V: stand in front of one of those huge speakers they use at rock concerts. Get a friend to play something with lots of Bass. Turn it up halfway (you don't want to damage the speakers [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]) and see how much that hurts. Now can you can survive something many, many times more powerful than that?

__________________
GIYUL :-)
"It takes Thousands to fight a battle for a mile, Millions to hold an election for a nation, but it only takes One to change the world." - Dan Sandler 2002

I was being sarcastic. Lighten Up!

Sarcasm?! Sorry, it's hard to tell when a hoax believer is being serious or not. You had started this line of argument by claiming that the Saturn V engineers didn't have any confidence in the design or else they'd be standing close to it during launch. You were implying that this was somehow suspicious by citing some bogus rule in the Air Force about how the people that design the air craft should test it themselves. You were enlightened as to the hazardous nature of standing too close to a Saturn V during a launch. The engineers surely would have known this since they designed the thing. You have already demonstrated, like many HB's, that you are willing to circumvent a plausible line of reasoning by suggeting something even more preposterous. In light of this, I took your earplug argument seriously and responded to it.

I suggest that you dispense with the sarcasm and try to support your position.

__________________
If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the precipitate.

Chemist said ...I suggest that you dispense with the sarcasm and try to support your position.

And I agree. You have not yet offered any evidence to back up your claims, have demonstrated no understanding of the subject to begin with, and you keep editing your original post and (literally) changing the subject.

If you are just here to troll, please say so. The problem with HBs is that most of their behavior is so troll-like to begin with that it's hard to tell a "regular" troll from a "serious" HB. If you are "serious", try defending one of your claims, or demonstrating some knowledge of the subject matter, or at least a willingness to learn.

Otherwise, GoAT.

Are you just trying to cover your arse by saying you were being sarcastic, when in fact you were being serious and got caught out......

For the record can I ask how old you are and what your possible scientific background is?

(spelling edit)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mainframes on 2002-11-11 09:57 ]</font>

He says he is a student in his profile. Probobly a high school student because i think (hope) that a college student (like me [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Go University of Florida!!!) has more maturity than to go about all day for several days trying to irk everyone in existance. Also the fact that he has almost no technical knowledge of what he is talking about also proves the point.

Now this is just a educated guess. If i am wrong, where are you a student?

_________________
"I am not conceited, i'm perfect"
"It takes Thousands to fight a battle for a mile, Millions to hold an election for a nation, but it only takes One to change the world." by Dan Sandler 2002

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: g99 on 2002-11-11 15:41 ]</font>

(from an amused bystander...)

...calm down, deep breath, walk away - Saturn V has been having immense fun with you in all his posts - he is a manipulator par excellence - ignore him and check out some other threads, it'll be better for your blood pressure in the long run.

Dr Atko
[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

He's just been going down the standard, long-refuted arguments from Bill Kaysing. Nothing special there. If he would exercise as much diligence in seeking answers as in seeking questions, he would realize how silly he looks.

It's pretty obvious he's the "hit-and-run" type with no interest in discussion or defending his position.

geeze... I go on vaction and come back to this... ouch, my ulcer...

anyway, I'll go one better than jrkeller
... I'll get on a shuttle and test out his equipment. Come to think of it, I'll be more than happy to let NASA put an apollo launch together, complete with primitive computer, and fling me to the moon, just to prove that we really did it. (ok, so I'm really just looking for a cheaper way to space than paying the Russians)

I must say it's rather disturbing to be away for awhile and come back to see so many locked threads.

One more thing... Oxygen leaks in the cabin suck, my Florida vacation was totally ruined by one... Oh well, there should be more shuttle launches, hopefully I can catch one.

Look's like the problem's been solved for us. BA banned Saturn V. My blood pressure is still okay by the way. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

__________________
If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the precipitate.

Boy, I'm glad I joined this message board *after* this guy had his fun and got banned. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

It saddens me to see a magnificent piece of engineering like the mighty Saturn V be denigrated so. Saturn V flew. That is an indisputable fact that can be attested to by literally millions of eye-witnesses with no connection to NASA. I know one person who has watched Shuttle launches from ninety miles away. Saturn would have been visible from the same range. Is the no moonie claiming they were all hushed up? Of course not. Like all no-moonies, he doesn't really understand what he's claiming.

I find it interesting that SaturnV knew enough about the Soviet N-1 moon rocket to know that it had "30 nozzles" as he put it. (More accurately, it had 30 engines. Not all rockets have the same number of engines as nozzles. The Russian RD-180 engine, for instance, has two nozzles but one combustion chamber.) He seems to be claiming that N-1 was superior to Saturn V for this reason, but in fact it was the sheer number of engines on N-1 which caused its demise; it was simply too complicated to work with the available technology. Saturn Vs five powerful engines were far more reliable.

S-V no doubt got a lot of his info from this very forum. I noticed on several occasions how someone would mention some fact or another, and then soon afterward he'd stick it into one of his many edits. The one about the tensile strength of Lexan is a good example. Everything else he probably got from googling.

Of course, it's been well pointed out that the original source of most of his rants was Bill Kaysing, who does not exactly have a stellar track record on getting the facts straight himself.

__________________
...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

Earplugs?

Bwaaaahahahahahaha!!!

Thanks for the chuckle.

[edit: Ok, I officially feel stupid now for responding to a 5-year old thread. Where's the dunce cap?]

__________________
Apollo unbelievers go here for immediate salvation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDI2MsWSYc

"I had a hand in Tom Morrow's kiester."
-JayUtah

"The only physical proof nasa has that they landed men on the moon is 840 lbs. of rocks"
-straydog02