I was wondering how anyone that's trying to prove Apollo 11 wasn't a hoax doesn't use the Soviet Union as a reason. The USSR would of been the first to say that Apollo 11 was a hoax. They would of jumped at the chance to say that the US was trying to fool the world. If a super power like the Soviet Union couldn't prove that it was a hoax why do idiots with too much time on their hands think they can?

Welcome to the board and Merry Christmas!

You astutely bring up one of the strongest anti-Hoax arguments there is and one that often gets into anti-Hoax discussions around here; it doesn't get addressed head-on that much, because the Hoaxers usually try to ignore the fact that the Soviets would have loved to have exposed us -- they concentrate on the data points that might, conceivably, support their conclusion.

It's much more interesting to the hoaxers to say "photographs can be faked" (which they can be, but dig around and look at JayUtah's post - or go to his website http://www.clavius.org for proof that the photographs actually in question weren't) than to say, "the Soviets were in on it" - which strains even the Hoaxers credulity.

This reminds me of the Alfred E. Neumann (of Mad magazine for you younger folks) proof that "All Numbers Are Larger Than 38" his proof being "39 is larger than 38. So is 40. And 41. And 42..." - they don't emphasize those (trillions of) facts which show that we did indeed go to the Moon.

Best as I've been able to determine, the various Hoax-hustling answers are:

- The Soviets were faked out, too.
- The Soviets were in on it.
- The Soviets were also trying to fake a mission, so we agreed we wouldn't rat people out.
- The Soviet Union itself was a hoax (have you ever been there? I haven't.)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rodina on 2002-12-24 14:09 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rodina on 2002-12-24 14:12 ]</font>

You forgot one more. We bought off the USSR with the grain sales in the 1970's.

True.
Indeed, if NASA Moon missions were a hoax, the Soviet Union would have made enormous effort toward proving it. On the other hand, if it were technologically possible to stage and cover up a hoax of this magnitude, the Soviet Union WOULD HAVE PULLED A HOAX OF ITS OWN, and we would have heard about a successful Russian Moon programme (instead of a failed one). Remember, the Soviet Union wasn't a democratic state, and it was a lot easier for the Soviet government to cover things up.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: agnus on 2002-12-26 11:11 ]</font>

yeah !!
we know "oil for food" . why not "silence for food" !!! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

One with the truth is stronger than a thousand with not.

Or so they believe. Welcome to the BABB, but I would like to mention that your topic should read "Soviet Union would've been first to say it was a hoax"--same pronunciation, but different spelling. I know it's just a spelling nit, but I think it's an interesting spelling nit.

Welcome to the board, newjersey123.

What you all don't know is that there is another bigger conspiracy to cover up what Soviets knew. We said to them "don't expose us and we will keep Mir aloft!"

Do I have proof of this, of course not. A good conspiracy is the one that can not be uncovered or proved. At that NASA did a very poor job - they left so many bread crumbs along the way for the HBs to find.

"What you all don't know is that there is another bigger conspiracy to cover up what Soviets knew. We said to them "don't expose us and we will keep Mir aloft!"

Mir isn't up there now so when will the Russians spill the beans??? Back to the Hoax Peddler drawing board...hehe

That's right. So, why aren't the Russians talking now? Now you see that the conspiracy is bigger than we thought!!

When the debate starts to go back and forth and when the reasoning for the moon hoaxers gets more and more elaborate -- Has anyone noticed that pulling off a moon hoax quickly becomes a bigger feat than actually going to the moon?

If we could have pulled of the telemetry; the 40 lbs of moon rocks; and the very cool magic trick of making the astronauts appear in the capsule that splashed down... (along with Apollo 10 and Apollo 8 and all the Apollo missions after Apollo 11) then going to the moon would have been a piece of cake.

Even if we had satanic cults or the Illuninati or space aliens to help us fake the trajectory that all the radio telescopes pointed to all over the world... why not have them help us go to the moon for real?

So none of it makes sense even when you get to the absurd and silly scenarios.

Heck, the USSR even issued a commemorative postage stamp honoring the Apollo-11 landing. I should probably scan it and put it in my book.

Not really on point, but my Dad gave a talk at Dubna (the Soviet equivalent of Los Alamos and Lawrence Livermore rolled up into one) in late September 1969, and he brought along a stack of the Life magazines with the big Apollo 11 photo spread, and gave them as gifts to his various Russian hosts.

Interestingly, while these guys--with the highest security clearance you can get in the Soviet nuclear program--all knew about the landing, but had only seen a few black-and-white stills of the moon landings even a couple of months after the fact. These guys were just so delighted to see the full-color pictures... and to have gotten them from an American guest was quite a treat.

Here are Soviet/Russian postage stamps with Apollo on them.
Scott# 5836a Issued 22 NOV 1989
http://www.mpicomputers.com/jbwayman/russia5833_36.jpg
Scott# 6083a Issued 29 MAY 1992
http://www.mpicomputers.com/jbwayman/russia6080_83.jpg

And from Space Stamps http://spacestamps.spb.ru/index-i.htm
Select letter R, Click Russia, Select Year 1998

XX century achievements
Designer: Y.Artsimenev

A set of six postage stamps dedicated to outstanding scientific and engineering achievements of the XX century, which affected the course of human history and they are of historical and cultural importance. (...Sputnik 1, Vostok 1 & Apollo Moonlanding on Russian postage stamp).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mcclir on 2003-01-01 13:59 ]</font>

i see no reason to think
a simular economic picture
would not give simulare results
of what transpired on the moon at that time
to get a different picture would take a differently
structured economic sceen..
for example a deep in the bush Aferican
pigmy or even band of gorilla
ask an average Gorilla if Armstrong walked on the Moon
My guess
they would just laugh
now back to J