You can post whatever you like in accordance with the forum rules. I'm only obligated to edit your posts when they're in violation of those rules.

You've now hotlinked several images again despite being instructed not to do so. This forces me to suspend your account for 72 hours. After that time you may return and post in accordance with the rules, and if not you will be permanently banned.

You have a lot of people encountering things that you would expect in a fire: Fireballs, pops, booms, and (secondary) explosions. This is not proof of demolitions use in any way.

Oh hello, synkronos, a.k.a. sunofone over on the Unexplained Mysteries web site. I see your tactics haven't changed. However, your trademark cut-and-paste blitzkrieg is not going to impress these guys.

I was going to write a lengthy response, but you have had these issues addressed again and again and again and all you do is ignore them. It's pointless. If a multi-million dollar investigation and every engineering journal in the world can't convince you that you're wrong, then I'm not going to accomplish anything with what I write in my spare time.

By the way, at least one member of UM, Larryoldtimer, is a professional civil engineer in California. If you are actually interested in the truth then why don't you ask him what his opinion is. I already have.

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It's woo-woo's all the way down.

Ah, sonofone from UM.

That explains a LOT

There's too many messageboards.

Just sayin'.

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There are few left who
Stare at the skies with wonder
Wishing to know more;
The clouds still drift by above
But the eyes below are blind.
--Laura Lundberg

Check out my writing, maybe.

Dear Mr. President,

There are too many message boards.

Please remove three.

PS. I am not a crank.

For every message board deleted, an angel gets its wings. Or a DJ gets his radio show. Or a scientist gets his PHD. Insert your own thingy here.

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There are few left who
Stare at the skies with wonder
Wishing to know more;
The clouds still drift by above
But the eyes below are blind.
--Laura Lundberg

Check out my writing, maybe.

About the claims that the engine came from a 737:

I've read the rense.com pages cited by Synkronos, and I can't find any indication that their "identification" was done by anyone having any professional familiarity with these engines, e.g. anyone certified to maintain and repair them, anyone involved in building them or anyone involved in designing them.

That's relevant. Let me give an example of how.

A few weeks ago I arrived at work to find that the day tech had been sorting out a load of old spare parts that had come out of our storage locker. He had put a bunch of them into a box labeled "Studer parts". I glanced into the box, plucked out a printed circuit board, and said "this isn't Studer. It's Ampex. It's not from an ATR-100 or AG-440, but definitely Ampex. Looks like a master bias oscillator- maybe it's from an MM1100 or MM1200."

How'd I know?

"This isn't Studer. It's Ampex."

The part number silkscreened on the board was Ampex's format- 7 digits, a dash and then two digits, not Studer's, which is x.xxx.xxx.xx. The "house numbers" on several transistors were consistent with Ampex's house number format. The blue phenolic PC board material with 1 oz. tinplated copper foil is what Ampex used in products going back to the days of vacuum tubes, and nothing like what Studer used in their products, which was usually epoxy paper with a green solder mask.

"It's not from an ATR-100 or AG-440"
Pull a PC board at random from either of those two machines, show it to me and I'll tell you what it is, what it does and what machine it came out of. I can do that because I've done many component-level repairs on every PCB in those two machines.

"It looks like a master bias oscillator"
Based on a little in-my-head circuit tracing and knowledge of what the functional blocks which are found in professional analog tape machines are and do. 20 years of working in the field tend to leave stuff like that firmly stuck in one's head.

When a claim about the identity of this engine comes from someone whose knowledge and experience of the innards of jet engines is equal to my knowledge of the innards of pro audio gear, then I'll sit up and listen. When the claim is from someone of no known qualifications looking at pictures on Web pages, and the opinion of someone who is knowledgable, like jt-3d, is something like "who you jiving with that cosmic debris", then I'll find a better use for my computer's share of the electric bill.

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Please enjoy your trip through this door.

As you can see the nine feet diameter is only the fan section. The core is a lot smaller. BTW that's a CF6 not a CFM-56. And where could one find a CF6? On a 767 for one.

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

You lost me on this one, is the core the object in the back because otherwise the core diameter looks as large as the fan diameter.

The big front part is the fan section. The back is the compressor and turbine sections. The fan scoops big gulps of air but most of it is bypassed around the core to cool it and quiet it. The accessory section is outside the core and has the gearbox and all the pumps and stuff. All that's missing from those pictures up there so I suspect that it's not the whole core. The fan section was destroyed by the impact so what you end up with is the smaller core.

A quick google finds this site.

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

Y'know, to go off topic for a moment. When I first read the title of this post, I thought it was going to be the OPer saying that the gubmint found out he didn't debunk it right, so they were gonna kill him. :P

__________________
There are few left who
Stare at the skies with wonder
Wishing to know more;
The clouds still drift by above
But the eyes below are blind.
--Laura Lundberg

Check out my writing, maybe.

Pops, booms, and secondary "explosions"? Floors trusses and supports failing. Fireballs and flashes? This is even more rediculous as "evidence". None of these people ever dropped something large onto a bonfire? Good lord...

Also, they keep crying about "independent analysis". Guess what? "Simulation for the Collapse of WTC after Aeroplane Impact", by the Department of Civil Engineering, Tsinghua University, Beijing.

Good link , thanks .

Not very nice. Perhaps I have un-common sense.


About the engine - the same was said about the 3 foot hub of the engine found at the Pentagon. It really does not take a lot of thought to see that the 3 foot diameter intake hub plus the missing 3 foot vanes adds up to 9 feet, does it?

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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

I should change my sig to that...

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There are few left who
Stare at the skies with wonder
Wishing to know more;
The clouds still drift by above
But the eyes below are blind.
--Laura Lundberg

Check out my writing, maybe.

Thanks for that, but then I expect Tsinghua University are in on the conspiracy.

Now that I have your attention...

I could say the same of your posts, the melange of carefully selected pictures and quotes from alleged insiders does not constitute proof that the towers were bought down in the manner you describe.

Nothing either you or Jimbro have stated prove this. To do that you need to be able to explain how the explosives were planted in working buildings without anyone noticing.

To set up buildings for demolition, the following needs to be done:

1. Selected structural members are pre-weakened.

2. Charges are mounted on the selected structural members.

3. Detonators are wired to the charges so that when they detonate in the proper sequence the structure collapses in such a way that debris is confined to a relatively small area.

This cannot be done overnight, nor can it be done without leaving traces that people using the buildings seeing something, whether it be damage to walls or that the carpet has been replaced.

I leave the response open to you...

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We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

John Sladek, The New Apocrypha, pg 34.

Ahh, right. My mistake. I'm still stuck on the "old" definition of independent. The new, CT-sponsored definition is apparently "anti-establishment; anti-mainstream". Therefore, to be considered an independent analysis, it must deny the "official story"...

Sorry, I read this thread but I don't see any disproving of the "molten steel" evidence, could you elaborate?

Mark Loizeaux re: molten steel: president of the clean-up firm claims there is video and photographic evidence of "molten steel" from the WTC site

The "Deep Mystery" of Melted Steel: finally coroborating evidence of melted steel at the site, even providing the mechanism that created it (eutetic reaction) requiring some large amount of sulfur of unverified origin.

Who on this thread blamed the government for 'controlling the science' other than debunkers via repeated strawman attacks? I see an instance where SynKronoS did respond to this allegation and said "the fact that it was an inside job is irrefutable" but he doesn't appear to equate the conspiracy with gov't control of science. He makes further accusations that the gov't has been suppressing evidence, which of course is well known (wouldn't everything be solved re: Pentagon crash if they just released all of the security video footage?) Are there any real debunkers here, or only strawmen?

Almost every 'debunker' (bizarro woo-woo?) on this thread claimed there was no melted steel at the WTC and it took me maybe 2 minutes on google to find they were all wrong. So much for appeals to authority.

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there is no governor anywhere

What proof is there that the planes were legitimately hijacked by the suspected al Qaeda terrorists?

hijacker's passport found near WTC: wtf?

Resurrected Hijackers: stolen identities?

surveillance tapes

more surveillance anomalies

Why is so much video evidence being suppressed? I'd really like to see the Pentagon crash also.

I have no problem with the rest of your post, but if the neo-cons were really behind the attack then the US economy is irrelevant. If the purpose of 9/11 was to occupy Iraq then that's where the neo-cons thought they'd make all of the real money (and they were right). They even tried for some blatant nepotism, but it backfired since nobody in their right mind is still trying to invest in Iraq.. but they definitely tried to do it.

see Order #39 - Foreign Investment

Capitalism gone wild

dunno about a 9/11 conspracy though, more like greedy opportunism.

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there is no governor anywhere

Akirabakabaka said: Light objects routinely survive plane crashes. There's nothing surprising about it. Have a look at pictures of other plane crashes.

Other people with the same name?

*shrug* I don't know for sure.

Ongoing investigations? Because it came from protected sources?

I'd like to see other footage of the Pentagon crash too, but if it also records images or objects the Pentagon doesn't want publicised, I can understand them wanting to keep things from the public.

I said this in another forum, and I think it's just as true here:

If the 'government' faked the moon landings (where there were tens of thousands of personnel involved, warehouses full of technical documentation, thousands of images, the programme was in the public eye, and subject to enormous scientific scrutiny as perhaps the most significant event of history), and the 'government' faked 9/11 (where there were hundreds of people at the scene, a few videotapes of the events themselves, and subject to massive government / public / scientific scrutiny as one of the most significant events in history).... why didn't they fake finding WMDs in Iraq?

The area was under tight control and security, few people would have been involved, the faking (either chemical or nuclear) of WMDs is well within the capability of the forces involved, it would have justified events in Iraq to both domestic & foreign opponents, and it would have been a great PR boost for G.W. Bush.

Yet nothing was found.

Think about it.

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"For ignorance to reign, all it takes is for knowledgable people to say nothing"

Lonewulf

Indeed. Two letters carried by either of the two airliners that crashed in New York City are known to have been recovered from the streets. One letter was delivered and the other was returned in damaged condition to its sender. Pam Belluck of The New York Times wrote of this in her Dec. 20, 2001, story, "One Letter's Odyssey Helps Mend a Wound."

Several hundred pieces of crispy mail survived the Hindenburg disaster.

You might want to have a look at 911Myths for a good look at the online evidence for the above.

From the 911 Myths site a rebuttal to claims that finding passports, etc near crash sites is impossible. You can also go to your library and look up books on air crash investigation. I personally recommend a popular series called "Air Disaster" by McArthur Job, this contains plenty of examples of lightweight/delicate objects surviving catastrophic events.

The person who set up the 911Myths site also looked into these claims.

Of course none of this will convince a 'true believer' of anything.

I'd also like to add that Obviousman has a good point re: faking WMD.

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We all know those Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

John Sladek, The New Apocrypha, pg 34.

what r CTs?!

CTs are Conspiracy Theorists.

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same molten steel that was dipped out by excavators?

How reliable are your sources? Do you know? I didn't look, I'll admit, but that's mostly because one of your sites both has "alien visitors" in its url and says someone claims there's evidence without, apparently, presenting it. Or at least, that's how you described it. There are lots of sites out there that'll talk about pools of molten steel weeks later; that doesn't actually make it true.

What's more, by saying that it was an "inside job," doesn't that rather mean the government? It could be my mistake for assuming that, I'll grant you, but I have actually discussed this with people who say the government set it up. This would require the government to control science, because so few people who are qualified to dispute the official explanation do. In fact, I don't know of anyone who works in a field that would require him/her to understand structural engineering who disputes the official story.

Edit: Okay, I've read your sources now. One of them is someone claiming to have received an e-mail (which, based on its footer, is not intended for public viewing but appears online anyway--if it is, in fact, legitimate) that claims that there is evidence, including the physically impossible "dipping" molten steel into excavators. Mmm hmm. Next?

Oh, right--next is one explaining why there is small amounts of melting, but says nothing about "pools" of molten steel. Drops, maybe, and it certainly doesn't claim that they were still molten any great length of time later.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

So why didn't NIST find any?

This allegation that there was melted steel there looks pretty flimsy to me. There was probably melted metal there of some kind. Is it possible to tell what type of metal it is by looking at it?

Even if there was melted steel there, how would that prove that high explosives were used to take down the building?

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All the woo-woos come out on the internet. Someday a real mod's gonna come down and wash all the scum off of this message board.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple