Hello,i have read and heard that the marsrovers oppurtunity and spirit and the viking 1 and 2 are also hoaxes ,and that they not landed on mars and not driving on mars,but in the nevada desert. What kind of stories are there about this? I have seen the photograps,and i believe it is nearly 100 procent mars because i see an characteristic mars sky,that you have only on mars. And about the moon hoaxes,i dont know what i believe.

Hi Denis, and welcome to the board. Rest assured, the Mars probes and moon landings are real.

These hoax stories are created by people who have never accomplished anything in their lives, and want to comfort themselves by believing that nobody else has, either.

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G'day Denis12

Welcome to the BAUT Forum.

Well, I've heard claims that the rovers were faked. But the claims are based on a couple of incorrect ideas, and the people who make the claims have nothing more to back them up. Where have you heard these claims? On the Internet? If so, why not point us to them.

Well, that doesn't prove much, as people would say that the skies are faked.

A better way of thinking about it is that there are currently three spacecraft orbiting Mars, one sent by Europe. These spacecraft, and the two rovers, are sending back all sorts of scientific data, about the atmosphere of Mars and about the stuff Mars is made of. Why would NASA and the European Space Agency want to make all this stuff up?

After all, if there was absolutely clear evidence of life on Mars, it's likely there'd be a lot more money available for exploration. They have nothing to gain by covering things up. Yet they've made no claims about finding life, so there haven't been any big increases in funding.

In other words, there's no clear logic to explain *why* NASA and the ESA would be faking things.

What evidence have you seen about the Moon Hoax? Do you find it convincing? Why?

Have you visited www.clavius.org? It's a site which explains why the arguments about the Moon Hoax are wrong. Alternatively, if you'd like some in-depth information about the Moon landings (it doesn't discuss the hoax) go to http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/

In summary, the 380 kilograms of rocks brought back by the Apollo missions are excellent proof we went to the Moon: geologists know they didn't come from the Earth, and robot missions wouldn't be able to collect the range of material the missions brought back.

Welcome to the BABB, Denis. The Moon landings, Viking landers and the Mars Rovers were and are very real. If you study what these hoaxmongers say you will quickly find out that they don't know what they're talking about. Their knowledge of astronomy and space travel technology is very shallow and filled with factual errors. They rely on the fact that the general population isn't well-versed in science or space travel and so many of their arguments, at first blush, seem plausible. However, under closer inspection, their "arguments" go up in smoke.

These people also get a lot of traction by claiming some overarching conspiracy. It seems a lot of people are willing to automatically turn off their critical thinking skills and accept the most ridiculous things as long as it comes tagged with a "government conspiracy" label. When you go through all the contortions that would be needed to pull off a hoax of this magnitude you will realize that it would just be easier to do the real thing.

Stick around for a while and check out some of the Moon Hoax threads. You'll find a lot of good information. Check out the Bad Astronomy and the Clavius webpages for excellant rebuttals to the Moon hoax nonsense.

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"A mystic is a person who is puzzled before the obvious but who understands the nonexistent." -- Elbert Hubbard

Bravo on that statement, well said!

Oh, and welcome to the boards Denis!

And some moonhoaxbelievers said that the US moonflag is fluttering,but i know that is not possible because there is no atmosphere ,and no atmosphere means no air and no wind. And what is going happen with me ,if i step out of the lunar module on the moonsurface(without) a spacesuit? I want to know what is going on with a human then.

Denis12 asked: That's right.

There *is* video footage of the flag waving on the Moon. But that's because the astronauts are fiddling around the with flag-pole with the flag attached. You can watch some of this if you go to www.apolloarchive.com and look at the Apollo 14 and Apollo 17 sections of the multimedia area.

If you were to step out onto the Moon without a spacesuit, you'd become unconscious in about 15 seconds, and die in about another 2 minutes due to lack of oxygen. Your body will then cool down slowly and eventually be destroyed by the steady fall or meteorites.

You won't explode, and your eyes won't pop out.

And there is no airpressure on the moon,and how do i feel me when step on the moon whithout spacesuit,but then i became an enormous pressuredifference,from near earth airpressure into near zero moonpressure,that means bubbles are going to boiling into my blood. Can you explain this? Because this is very interesting stuff for me to discuss here in this forum. Greets from Denis.

Denis12 said: I'm not sure I understand what you are asking here.

In general, if you place a liquid in a vacuum, it will boil. But the blood inside your body is contained by your body and not exposed to the vacuum. So I don't think it will boil. I think it might clot inside you first, but I don't know.

Well it would boil from the heat would it not. Also the Air from your body would attempt to leave from ever pore and orifice, you would look as if you were inflating as your skin and cells attempted to hold back the oxygen.

Wayneee said:Well, that would depend on what time of the lunar day you were trying to wander around. The Apollo missions all landed early in the lunar day when the lunar surface temperature was mild. So how long would it take for the blood inside your body to boil? I'm really not sure.

Well, the only places air is in your body is in your lungs and in your gut. Air in the lungs would get out your throat, and air in your guts would exit by the other end. So you'd probably involuntarily breathe out and break wind. That's why I don't think you swell up.

Consider that the crew of Soyuz 11 died when they lost the air from their spacecraft. They were subject to a vacuum for several minutes and never swelled up.

The depictions of blood boiling and people swelling up is Hollywod myth (Total Recall, Moon 44). It looks good on the big screen but it's not true in RL. Nor is the idea that some movies have (Red Planet, Mission to Mars) that people would instantly freeze. As long as you moderated your breath, it wouldn't be sucked from your lungs, well actually it blows out from your lungs, and you might be likely to blow off involutarily too. What would probably be the most dangerous, is that if you actually held your breath rather then allowing the excess to escape, the gases in your lungs would expand and could rupture them, causing an air embolism similar to what a diver can experience from rapid ascention while holding their breath. Depending on what time of the lunar day it was, the surface could freeze or fry your feet pretty fast, and you're get a quick sunburn from the extra UV. Of course the biggest trouble would occur when you breathed out the last of the air, and then tried to breath back in, there'd be no air. That would mean that you'd have about 3 minutes all up to think about how you're about to die before your body ran out of oxygen and you collapsed unconscious. The reason that the body wouldn't explode or boil is simply that its stronger than that. The skin is a good pressure vessel and there isn't a lot inside it to force its way out, or in. Fluids are all kept well enclosed inside the body and so won't boil off at all, though I'd suspect that your eyes and mouth would dry up quickly as these exposed fluids evapourated. Once you were dead, your body would decay due to the UV light damaging the proteins in it, and there is likely to be some decay from bacteria in the body starting to break it down. I suspect it'd slowly dry freeze and then become dust. I suspect that the heat and cold cycles of the lunar surface wouldn't be good for it either, frying your corpse like a steak during the day and freezing it solid during the night. That would destroy all the cells on your body, so with the drying effect of the vaccum, and the UV, I doubt it would last more than a few months at the most.

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Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

As I understand it, "minutes" of consciousness is when you have a lung full of air. Without the partial pressure to support internal respiration, you cease to take in oxygen immediately -- and unconciousness is within ten or fifteen seconds.

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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

well the 3 minutes I gave was with the idea that the person had enough sense to allow the excess pressure to bleed off to prevent embolism, but still retained air in their lungs. Of course assuming they had that much sense after they'd just stepped out of the LM without a spacesuit on is probably giving them a litle too much credit, but hey....

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

I wonder is BS would be willing to act as a volunteer for an experiment to test our hypothesis, after all it'd all be "hoaxed" so he wouldn't have to worry... too much.

__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

I'm pretty sure I've seen film of the recovery people trying to resuscitate the Soyuz 11 crew. They'd hardly have bothered if the crew had exploded.

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"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head" Terry Pratchett

I think it is true that i died when i step on the moon or on mars whithout a spacesuit,its a little the same when i dive in an ocean whith a depth of a kilometer or so,when i dive to a hundred meters or so,and i went rapidly go up to the surface of the water,then you get the well known divers sick,and then you get notrogen bubbles into your blood because of the enormous pressuredifference in a little time. That is true i think. And on venus the pressure is much (higher) than on earth,if i step on the planet venus ,what happened then without a spacesuit? Somebody ho can explain all of this? Lots of thanks. Denis.

Hi Denis,

we must have a great faith about what scientists are taking pains to go beyond earth, (this is not a easy task to lift the machines beyond the zero gravity, and on a particular planet ) in short their efforts are having a great sense, in my opinion nothing is fake one, the rovers are really working there, because our scientists of the world are precious one, and we have to keep a 100% confidence upon them. I really confuse that what you are talking about ?

Space ships use a pure oxygen environment, so an unfortunate person exposed to the surface of the moon without a space suit would have come from a pure oxygen environment and would not get the bends from nitrogen bubbles.

As to Venus, Wikipedia says this about the atmosphere

The atmosphere is also loaded with acidic sulfurous compounds. This would be the equivalent of stepping into a very strong hot pressure cooker, providing a painful death that couldn’t be quick enough.

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