I was only kidding.
I forgot my smiley.

I read somewhere that the Aluminum spelling came about by accident when a large aluminium manufacturer in the USA spelled Aluminium Aluminum in one of there flyers.

Original spelling was apparently alumium...

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Knowledge is a curse, but ignorance is worse

which doesn't mean it's not an alloy you are familiar with, just that all the tiny contaminants that aren't usualy listed have been included. Or it's the waste from some other smelting process.

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'The eye can only see what the mind is prepared to accept'

well they do have percentages posted from the nids report...nids identified 22 elements in the metal. there are eight or nine in a 360 or variation of that particlar aluminum alloy or for that matter any aluminum alloy manufactured now and that is what nids compared the metal to.

you wont see spillage form in the layered chad effect in aluminum..think of moltem aluminum like liquid mercury...same properties when aluminum is liquid or molten...

in this case the obvious isnt obvious at all.. steel or iron will layer..aluminum dont and that is a fact..not an opinion.

most of my work has been with engine blocks for high performance outboards in a formula 4 engines..lost foam casting...we cast alot of our own parts for injection systems and such..

check lymans book of alloys...do a search for aluminum composites for the list of elements...

they got a vickers hardness scale in this thing in the 61-61 range..thats not bad at all...hardly bad or scrap with that rating...in fact thats pretty inpressive.












I did some digging around the internet for more info on the object. Here's a couple of webpages that I found. the first one has all the specific details of the analysis of the object done in 1996. that was the first testing done. since then they have had 7 more labs do work on it.

http://www.nidsci.org/articles/metal/analysis2.html

I then looked up info on 360 Aluminum Alloy Casting as mentioned on the first webpage. Here's what I found:

http://www.legaluminum.com/alloys.phtml

I noticed that the make-up of the object is not as close a match to 360 Aluminum Alloy Casting as the NIDS page would lead you to believe in it's findings. Especially in relation to the exotic minerals found. Also, I found an interesting statement in the conlcusions portion relating to the formation of the object relating to how it cooled.

The presence of porosity together with the apparent flow lines suggests that uncontrolled cooling took place. thats not normal in any plant making a cast...that is controlled always.

Here's another website that has chemcial properties of the 360 Alloy. Note the differences in chemical make-up from the object.

http://www.la-diecast.com/alumspec.htm

the basic elemental tests plus the very unusual formation of the metal make it more than interesting...

isotope abundance ration tests need to be done and some other testing that would isolate the more rare elements in the object.

i think it should be looked at alot closer..the way i see it is if this is some sort of hoax you dont go and take lie detector tests from cops and you dont ask for the best labs and universities to look at this.

this thing what ever it is didnt fall off the watermellon truck coming out of mississippi.

all id say is if you think this is some sort of spillage there ought to be some really cool pictures of something like it on the world wide web..

ive looked and i sure havnt found anything..

i dont know what it is but i do know what it aint...it aint spillage or dribble from a casting form..in other words is wasnt cast in any process im aware of..

that to me makes it VERY INTERESTING.

metal head..

I missed the link to the nids report. I only looked at the original link.
Sorry.



Quoting nids:

They're not saying it is 360, but that's the closest they can get...it could be junk from making 360, or something that was 360 that got trashed, or just a failed attempt to make the alloy. If, as seems to me likely, it is junk then you will get all sorts of garbage in there.

And even they are saying that its shape is caused by the cooling of the alloy after being under some forced flow, rather akin to what I suggested above.

I think it would make more sense that alien craft would either be made of composite materials[nano-tubes and etc] or biological[dna structures(Sciam wrote an article about their use in the release of dyes at the presence of explosive chemicals) and etc] in nature. Which, really makes it a non-sequitor to say any raw material means it's from outerspace. When a big semitruck[or plus] sized craft smacks down in downtown whatever, then that'll be proof of space truckin' non-humans.

-- Bridget

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"Contrary to the ecologists, nature does not stand still and does not maintain the kind of "equilibrium" that guarantees the survival of any particular species - least of all the survival of her greatest and most fragile product: man." -- Ayn Rand

It seems like according to the general philsophy of this forum ... if you don't have any credentials in the metallurgy field you don't have any worthwhile comments to make on this metal sample.

Isn't that how it goes?

So at this point Metal Man has the most credibility in his observations ...

Eric12407: if you don't have any credentials in the metallurgy field you can still have arguments regarding the metallurgy field. You're just not allowed to predent you have credentials that you don't have. Credentials without arguments are worthless. Arguments are what it is all about. If you have credentials to back your arguments up that's a nice extra, but credentials don't justify everything AND false credentials or unjustified use of credentials are an absolute no-go in debating.

So NO, that is not how it goes.

That said, Metal Man's experience with aluminum casting is interesting. For starters, we now know that this object is most probably not made in the kind of woking environment he is in, as he's never seen anything like that there. As the alloy is not the same as what he's been working with though (if I understood things correctly), it would be interesting to find out whether the alloy of the object would get a shape like the object in normal processes like the ones Metal Man is working with, or if it must have been formed otherwise (ie deliberately into the shape it is in)

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

im familar with lost foam, sand casting, die casting, forced mold casting, gravity die casting, plasma spray and few others...

the only process that might be able to duplicate this thing would be a forced mold casting in a vacuum....maybe??

using a steel mold then forcing the molten aluminum into the mold..

the problem comes in the abalation rings and the layer effect of the chads on the object..

my background covers almost 4 decades as far as various types of casting processes.

the whole problem in trying to make this thing would be the uniform layers with visable spaces under the chads or layering..

like i said...i dont know what it is, where it came from or what it could be used for.

all im saying is in my experience it would be near impossible to make in any casting process..

there are only so many ways to melt a piece of metal.

just using a bit of common sense.

the way i see it is if this was an accident how did it happen?? or for that matter where did it happen and what where they trying to make..

i certainly think there would be other examples of this to...they been around for 10 years or more an so far no one has shown anything like it or close to it in looks and if it can be made why hasnt someone made one??

here you go...it can be made just like this one. i bought his book and i saw him on the history channel...he dont have the education to make this thing...hes a former musician. 50 years in that business..hardly leaves time to make exotic alloy aluminum objects..lol

like i said before..the fact no one has shown another example of this metal makes it unusual to. dont you think?

everyone always thinks advanced life forms...who says they are so advanced?? if they excists at all. maybe they use the same things found on the planets that also make up our world...

just throwing out a few balls to see how they bounce.

aluminum is the most abundant metal on our planet and third after oxygen and silicone.

if this was ejected from some sort of craft "ours or theirs" it could very well be a power cell of some sort..

we are working on aluminum as a major power source now for hybrid cars. its considered the next major break out in battery technoligy.

its already a very reactive metal to other elements...it will generate a current with simple reactions to water or air or other elements used to alloy with it. you have a radioactive side that isnt naturally occurring so it could very well be used to power a reactor of some sort..

say you have a reactor that uses aluminum as a power source...you have heat. you have molten aluminum in the chamber, when the power is extracted you have an ejection of molten metal into the outside enviroment..

im just throwing out ideas.

metal head

metal man...do I understand you correctly? That the ideas you have presented are based on viewing a photograph?

It looks like it was formed as molten alloy dripped out of a mold or crucible. An aluminum alloy stalactite. It would have layers of the various different alloys being poured at different times.

RAF

i have read the information presented on the site in question..i have contacted a few people i know in metallurgy...i have asked questions about it to others and i have read his book and seen 2 shows done on it. i have sent pictures of it to people i know in the casting works and jewlers to. not one of those people have seen anything like it either. i have contacted both of the scientists listed as working on the metal...

they make certain claims....the eye witness states what he saw. he has taken polygraphs. he has passed 3 of them.

now if what he states is exactly what he saw and it is doing what they claim it is doing and no one can show anything like it id say it aint from the beer can factory..

LTC i will say again aluminum wont form like that piece of metal dripping out of a crucible or anything else. it will run and round when it sets.

the properties of molten aluminum are like mercury... have you ever seen a sharp edge on mercury..aluminum rounds when it hardens..never get a sharp chad in the open air. no way. no how.

get your self a piece of lawnmower engine block.thats a 360a. break out your propane or mapp torch and melt some if it...you will see exactly what im taking about.

you can do what your are saying to steel or iron with no sweat. not aluminum. you will see steel build up on railroad car wheels brake frames when they have to make an emergency stop. looks exactly the same as the aluminum they showing.

i personally think it is very unusual and worthy of more than just saying it is something that may be an accident in some foundry...

if you dont believe the eye witness then no matter what he says or claims is immaterial to the discussion. i take the story at face value. if he has taken an passed lie detector tests that tells me he is trying to find out something and hes doing all he can to show he is telling the truth.

this is just my opinion on the information i have..just because you think it could be made by dripping metal out of a crucible i will say it cant be done that way. that is 35 years of experience. thats not a guess.

i have others i am talking to now.

im looking at this with an open mind of what it could be...not it cant be.

till i see somthing that shows me this man is lying or someone can show me another one like it ill go with what i am seeing..

metal head

Metal Man: in how far does aluminum act differently when the alloy is changed (the alloy found has significant differences from Al-360)?

btw as long as this man claims things like "the air force does not exist" I will look with serious skepticism on any of his claims. The reliability of this man however is not important to my question regarding the behaviour of (dirty) alloys wrt Al-360.

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Not to sound dismissive, but I've looked at the photos and being a little bit of a geek that loved crystals and geology as a kid, this spike of aluminum looks exactly what you would get in a mine either with salt or a mixture of salt or other elements deep in the earth. Especially an old salt mine, probably was geologically active. Also, the person in question claims to have found this item in Europe...There are many many mines in the northern regions near Norway and Sweden to which one can procure such oddities. Heck, you can even get such things from a Vancover geode mine. I'm not saying the guy hasn't found something, but I am saying it ain't no ufo part. It was from a battery core it's too large. It would have to be a mesh to allow for a catalyst reaction to happen. Chemical batteries that use aluminum do not use rods, period and end of story, it just wouldn't be efficient to yield the electrons from the aluminum or the battery fluid.

-- Bridget

__________________
"Contrary to the ecologists, nature does not stand still and does not maintain the kind of "equilibrium" that guarantees the survival of any particular species - least of all the survival of her greatest and most fragile product: man." -- Ayn Rand

he never claimed he found this in europe ladyattis. he said he recovered it in colorado in 1985. he has declassified documents from an army file john greenewald jr. got of the blackvault that shows something the CIC recovered in europe in the 40's.
you are also wrong on your assumption it couldnt be a battery part...lithium batteries use aluminum as sacrificial anodes in the battery. water alum and zinc will create current and thats no lie either. its called electrolysis which is the reaction of metals to each other with common H2O. you dont even need a liquid bath to get this reaction...humidity in the air will cause it.

aluminum has been used in the recent past as the sacrificial anode (thus fuel) in aluminum-air fuel cells, aluminum-based rechargeable batteries. end of story.

we use zinc in the boat business as a sacrificial anode to keep lower units from rotting away in the water. you have a steel drive shaft in an aluminum case the the flow of electrons goes from the aluminum to the steel.
you put on a piece of zinc on the outside of the aluminum and the flow of electrons goes from the zinc and that rots away instead of your lower unit.

what does a salt mine in europe have to do with an alloy aluminum metal? you will never find aluminum in a natural state or for sure in a salt mine. it has to be manufactered in a plant to just make it from baxite ore.

bauxite is crushed, washed, dried, and then shipped to processing sites. Aluminum is produced by the “electrolytic reduction of alumina in a molten bath of natural or synthetic cryolite” . This process is very energy intensive.

The first step in the commercial production of aluminum is the separation of aluminum oxide from the iron oxide in bauxite. This is accomplished by dissolving the aluminum oxide in a concentrated sodium hydroxide solution. Aluminum ions form a soluble complex ion with hydroxide ions, while iron ions do not. The Hall-Héroult process remains the only method by which aluminum metal is produced commercially.

Frost & Sullivan's 2005 Technology Innovation Of The Year Award in the field of battery technologies goes to Ab Europositron Oy of Finland in recognition of the company's development of an innovative nanoscale electrochemistry technology that allows the production of rechargeable aluminum batteries. Significantly, this technology provides up to 20x higher capacity than existing batteries.
that kind of shoots a hole in the need a mesh to make it work idea for a catalist reaction. you have to open your mind from known technoligy to the possibility of other forms that do the same thing only in a different set up.

there are much more advanced batteries on the market now that put liquid bath to shame on power output.

i believe his claim that the air force doesnt excist is a sarcastic comment..i have seen that on tee shirts and posters..i found it funny..not fact. lol

you will see differences in the crystal lattice structures as you add or take way various elements under scanning electron microscope. as far as its form goes if this was a mistake at some plant...what plant would have all the elements that are in this thing...that would be some serious contamination for starters. number 2, most of the elements in this arent used in any aluminum alloy made so why would they even be near any casting poor.

thats kind of a what if senerio to me..i suppose if you feed a chicken lots of grapes you could get purple meat from the chicken that taste like wine. cook him or squeeze him..lol

one question ladyattis.. why couldnt it be from a ufo? millions of people believe they excist. thousands have seen and reported sightings all over the world. there are reports of UFOs ejecting things from some of these sightings. again i say i dont know if these stories are fact but just by volume alone it kind of says just maybe there may be something to the stories. these same witnesses testimony could send a person to the electric chair but if you mention UFO your a nut case. that is a very closed mind to the possibilities out there...

they have found water on mars. NASA's Cassini spacecraft may have found evidence of liquid water reservoirs that erupt in Yellowstone-like geysers on Saturn's moon Enceladus. The rare occurrence of liquid water so near the surface raises many new questions about the mysterious moon.

if you have water you have the very real possiblity of life on other worlds. takes a small mind to think we are the only game in the universe.

metal head

My mistake, but it still does not look artificial at all. The same is indicative of something created within a complex series of geological events, namely those found around salt mines.

Nope, you can make it through geological events, especially those that thermalize bauxite to incredible temperatures.

Proof that a geological event can do the same thing through sheer heat and millions of years and millions of chances over those years.


Doesn't prove that it's space borne let alone artificial in nature.

Nope, because your claim is that batteries use rods as their main electrode. I'll give you a link to a diagram of how a modern battery is made...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_%28electricity%29 I hope this helps.


The majority of batteries come in dry or wet cell for consumers unless you're talking about the extreme designs in particular fields of research. Batteries in practice and principle have not changed since their commercial use nearly a century ago.


Then please show me on the site where there is such a image of the electron microscope's own scan.


And millions of people believe in urban myths, logical fallacies, and religious faiths. What does that prove about these things and their soundness? Nothing.

I live in the World Air Capital, Wichita, and I see strange lights in the skies all the time. Does that mean they are space borne alien friends/foes? No it just infers I cannot identify the light to anything that flies in the air. Often birds and airplanes are misidentified. Even satellites near the fringe of the city light pollution can be seen in the sky.

No, one psychologist named Elizabeth Loftus refuted eye witness reports as valid in the 1970s, which is why the United States in criminal cases require physical evidence to back up eye witness reports. Often, because the faultiness of human memory, witnesses are rarely asked to recount their claim. The DAs of different counties prefer to use afadavits[sp?] instead.

What possible is not what is probable. Inductive logic in this case has an explanation that is reliable. The problem is that possibilities in themselves do not become automatically probabilities insomuch that possibilities are things yet to be substantiated. Thus, it does not logically follow to accept them as probable without further investigation.


No, they found evidence of liquid water that flowed hundreds of millions of years ago...

Can I please see a citation for that source. Remember, the majority of the planets past Earth are very much different and their moons are very exotic. The majority of the cases for the moons around these gas giants are very anti-water insomuch that such environs are either too hot for the liquid form of water to exist or too cold for it to be liquid either...


The moon is not really mysterious. It came as a collision between the early Earth[probably just-post-protostar form of Sol our star currently...] and a Mars sized object which was shattered by the collision according to the current science.


Non-sequitor on the issue of the object. The object in question does not validate the existence of life forms not of terran origin. The object in question is about whether something as mundane as a lump of aluminum is equivocal to proof of intelligent life visiting our planet...And that question is that it is not due to the lack of structure within the so-called ET object. I remind you, our species is just learning how to manipulate nanoforms. Don't you think that intelligent lifeforms thousands of years advanced beyond us would be using something entirely different from our technological base? I point that question at you because, I think you need to understand the scope of prescience that it would take to know the exact composition of such an alien species own technology. As such, to assume something as automatic proof of their existence without question to whether or not this is of natural origin is in itself a hasty generalization of a very easily explained object.


-- Bridget

__________________
"Contrary to the ecologists, nature does not stand still and does not maintain the kind of "equilibrium" that guarantees the survival of any particular species - least of all the survival of her greatest and most fragile product: man." -- Ayn Rand