Sometimes I wonder if there should be specialized software that would quickly bring up a message asking "Have you taken your meds yet?" for those who believe in this type of thing...

It's not that I believe or disbelieve ... Mr Skipper is obviously serious about his beliefs and is prepared to spend a great deal of energy and time persuing answers. (It's bit like mankind following different belief systems or religion, his answers are followed by some and scorned by others.)

I am always intrigued by the committment people put into their beliefs.

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

Problem is that Skipper is "presenting his work" as if it were an actual scientific investigation. His, (and his "followers") Beliefs are irrelevant...

Convincing evidence is...

Skipper's "evidence" is simply not convincing...

__________________
"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

He believes there is more being discovered on Mars than is released to the general public. This fuels his investigation. His belief is relevant, it drives him.

Naturally, as soon as one is open to new ideas, new ideas appear.

It's the old psycology that, until you know what you are looking for, you won't find it. Robert Anton Wilson is quite a big advocate of this kind of thinking.

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

Then he should stop wasting his time "playing with pictures" and concentrate on providing convincing evidence that what he "believes" is actually true.

Relevant only to himself.

Or to put it another "way", if he is determined to find anomilies on Mars...then he will indeed find them....That doesn't make them real.

__________________
"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

And he finds evidence for this in what is released to the general public. Bizarre, isn't it. It's the same old trick of "they are incompetent when it suits me, and hypercompetent when it suits me as well". A bit too easy for me. Remember that is was Nasa that was the first to point out the Face on Mars as well. A bit stupid if you want to hide things, no?

__________________
Knowledge is a curse, but ignorance is worse

As Mr Skipper keeps reminding everyone, the images they release are very much tampered with, obscuring much detail, truely or Falsly (I am no expert in such details).

If my memory serves me right, the Area 51 UFO crash was initially confirmed from an official source, then denied. (I might be wrong here????)

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

The images that NASA releases are "tampered with"?? Well, then he needs to show that his statement is more than just his belief...and he needs to show that with evidence...

I fail to see what this has to do with what we are discussing...talk about "changing the subject"...

__________________
"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

NASA were the first to point out the FACE. Official. (Thanks FRAM) UFO crash was also an initial official release. That is the only connection. Not a change of Subject.

Could NASA have discussed the FACE woowoo frenzy and discounted it catagorially, instead of leaving it hanging in the happy "is it or isn't it" world?

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/e...ers-in-sun.htm

Paragraph 6 - This is one report that touches on Image Tampering applications.

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

A rover operating at the poles would need to be powered by plutonium RTGs rather than solar panels. So it's going to be a lot more controversial. But I think the next rover is supposed to use RTGs, so it will be interesting to see where they send it.

__________________
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

NASA isn't in the habit of taking official positions on scientific issues, leaving that to the scientists themselves. And few of the scientists considered taking the Face even seriously enough to discount it.

__________________
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

You know, a brief examination into the history of science would prove that this isn't true. Hence, in fact, the very existence of the word "serendipity." Heck, I find things I wasn't looking for all the time, and that's just when I'm cleaning my apartment.

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

What is this "cleaning" of which you speak?

Anyway, as to ToSeek's post, the Mars Science Laboratory (MSL-09) rover will use a single RTG (new design, using 8 heat source modules as opposed to 18 on the New Horizons/Cassini/Galileo/Ulysses RTGs), and the mission will go somewhere between +/- 60 degrees latitude. (I'm peripherally involved on the heat source/RTG side of things.)

Absolutely. The history of science is littered with examples of accidental discoveries. Just a few from the world a astronomy...

When Galileo pointed a telescope at Jupiter, he never suspected that he would find moons encircling the great planet. This totally unexpected finding helped support the Copernican idea of a heliocentric universe.

When Karl Jansky tried to solve the problem of static on long-distance communication lines, he was surprised to find that a major source of radio signals came from the Milky Way galaxy itself.

When Jocelyn Bell set up her radio telescope, the first finding of a pulsar was so unexpected that the initial half-joking reaction was that the signal might be from 'little green men'.

When the Americans sent up the Vela satellites to monitor illegal nuclear testing, they were stunned to find their detectors triggered almost daily by hitherto totally unexpected explosions of unimaginable power from the depths of space.

And of course, two technicians trying to locate the source of a hissing noise in communications equipment (reminiscent of Jansky) stumbled on nothing less than the remnant traces of the Big Bang itself.

All of the sciences have similar stories to tell. Many of the major advances in science have come about completely by accident - the key has been that the people involved were canny enough to recognise what it was that they had stumbled across.

__________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

Well, okay, "cleaning" may have been too strong a word. "Going through boxes looking for other stuff" might possibly be closer to the mark. As would be "getting my neighbor to clean for me."

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

It seems to work all ways then.
You'll find what you are looking for even if you don't know what you are looking for and you'll find something relevant as soon as you start looking for something.

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

I have not read all the information on his site, so I wonder if anyone here could tell me: What, in his opinion, is NASA's reason for observing martian civilizations and then blurring them instead of simply not taking those photos?

PS: First post here, so be gentle

I've heard it said, by people such as Hoagland, that there is an "inside person" or "whistle blower" that releases the doctored images with just enough clues as a tip off to what's REALLY in the picture.

I've deliberately avoided such sites as of late, but isn't that the gist of that argument?

CJSF

__________________
Two years ago moved from my town
I was looking up past the city lights
But the city lights got in my way

See the constellation ride across the sky
No cigar, no lady on his arm
Just a guy made of dots and lines

-from "See The Constellation"
by They Might Be Giants

....and as Mr Skipper suggests:
There is automated image doctoring, which occasionally misses things.

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

Hi Forskern Welcome

I would have thought that by not releasing images they would either cause huge woo woo stories or none at all!

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

Automated image doctoring?

I am currently looking for a relevant paragraph in which Mr Skipper refers to automated image manipulation.

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

Automated image manipulation is not the same as automated image doctoring. Image manipulation can include histogram clips or stretches for contrast enhancement or visibilty, noise reduction, bit scaling, and geometric correction among others. Much of this is automated, and should be. They are normal practices in image analysis.

CJSF

__________________
Two years ago moved from my town
I was looking up past the city lights
But the city lights got in my way

See the constellation ride across the sky
No cigar, no lady on his arm
Just a guy made of dots and lines

-from "See The Constellation"
by They Might Be Giants

My apologies, you'll have to bear with me, I am not as exact as I should be. It's better that I find the details from the Mars Anomaly Research Site itself. Sorry. ...more follows

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

[HB]Of course they are using Automated Image Doctoring.
How else can you explain the large number of photos NASA is publishing.[/HB]

__________________
Join the Illuminati

Not sure what you mean Halcyon Dayz?

__________________
Round...everything is always round!

Just kidding.

The hoax believers somehow believe that NASA is hiding the fact that they know
that there is life on Mars. And then they use the photos from NASA to 'proof' it.

I think that's funny.

__________________
Join the Illuminati

Yup, the old simultaneous omnipotence and incompetence theory, loved by CT's the world over. NASA is able to fool every astronomer world-wide and hide from them that our solar system is teaming with life--even non-NASA and anti-American sources--yet idiotically let evidence they are covering up probably the most important discovery in mankind's history slip out in pictures they themselves have control over.

It is course the 'hero' (themselves) that is exposing the evil lies of the conspiracy.

As someone of vast intelligent noted a long time ago. If NASA actually wanted to hide something on Mars they probably wouldn't have sent robot after robot to take tens of thousands of photographs of the secrets then place them on the internet for all to see.....

Images 3 and 4 in this report look at some image manipulation.

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/e...nity-mixed.htm

I found quite a lot of talk about image tampering in the Clementine reports Mr Skipper has produced. Because it is under the same site I will include a link despite taking cover behind a large rock in cover of the shrapnel.

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/e...oon-towers.htm

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/e...on-objects.htm

__________________
Round...everything is always round!