Quoted from Eric's 3rd link...bottom of previous page.

And to that I say rubbish...I'd even say it was obvious rubbish...

Why do I say that?

Well, if this is some "massive tall towering object", then just where is it's shadow??? I see the shadows of the craters, yet this "tall object" has none.

Seriously, Eric...we all know that Skipper believes this "stuff", but it's painfully (and I stress painfully) obvious that he doesn't know what he is talking about...

edited to add link

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

"It is the true believer's ability to shut his eyes and stop his ears to facts which in his own mind never deserve to be seen or heard which is the source of his unequalled fortitude and consistency." Eric Hoffer

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

I thought this line particularly apt:

It's disturbing to me, for one. In days gone by, these characters could be left to rant to a couple of bemused spectators in an obscure corner of Hyde Park, or similar locations. With the advent of the internet, they are now free to peddle this nonsense to a world-wide audience - many of whom lack the skills of critical thinking so realise what a load of garbage is being hoisted upon them.

The net is a remarkable resource that has (and will continue to) revolutionised the globe, but what a double-edged sword it is.


(Sorry for the rave - I have had a rather bad morning....)

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

*sigh* more jpg pixilations, this looks like a's, and overexposure bleeds. You'd think that these people would actually learn a little bit about what to expect from the images before they start making the same mistakes.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

As a lay man I ask:

Do the scientific community then accept: this pixelation is normal and distortion of images like these are unavoidable; there is no technology known that can produce less fuzzy (or more accurate) images?

I can't access Google earth, but I must believe that earth images would also distort with magnification? Perhaps we can find some anomalies right here on earth? Maybe right in my own back yard?

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Round...everything is always round!

any jpeg is going to pixelate when it is zoomed into. It's due to the way the image is coded. They get worse each time they are saved as well, espeically if they are opened into an editer for adding borders, notation or even viewing before resaving. There are image types that have less in the way of artifacts to them, but mostly they are raw data images like tifs and are huge filewise.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Are Tifs of Mars available for scientists to study? They would seek the best quality available no doubt.

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Round...everything is always round!

Are Tifs of Mars available for scientists to study? They would seek the best quality available no doubt.

That I can't answer, I don't know what form they are transmitted in. If there are, I'm imagine that they are used by those that actually deal with the rover data. The stuff released on the Internet is really just NASA's commitment to release its info to the Public. If they are transmitted as better quaility images, it's possible they can be obtained from NASA themselves.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

This report on Viking image tampering ...would I be right to think of the original images as analogue as opposed to digital, or were they using digital then? Does pixelation still play a part in this?

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/e...-tampering.htm

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Round...everything is always round!

No matter what the source, if you currently have an image file and perform zooming(magnification) on portions of it, you will be looking at extrapolated views which won't necessarily have any basis in reality. Image files are fixed in their resolution and you cannot bring out detail that doesn't exist to begin with. Even TIFF files have a fixed resolution which will show the same problems once you exceed the resolution of the original.

Edit: dropped the word compressed as the statement applies to all image files

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Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Asimov's addition - "Or ignorance."

"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage

Why do you continue to post links to Skipper's site? Yesterday, I posted the following...

Now my opinion hasn't changed, (he still doesn't know what he is talking about, nor any idea how to interpret images.) And you haven't addressed the points that I made...

...So why continue to post links to a page when you won't aknowledge the errors that Skipper has (so obviously) made???

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

No. It may be difficult to believe, but the Viking Orbiters did not take analog photos on chemical film and then return those analog images to Earth.

National Air and Space Museum: Deep Space Network

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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

Yeah - I wish I had known that before I bought that 24-Hour Photo franchise on Phobos. My wife said it would never work....

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

I feel somewhat bad for the folks on a perpetual wild artifact chase. There are so many gorgeous surface features to appreciate in all the Martian imagery... which actually exist. Makes me wonder if "anomaly" devotees ever pause to take in the planet's natural beauty.

Absolutely.

Edit: There are a few 140MB panoramas in there.

Here's an example of what zooming does to a jpg.

This is a crop from a picture of a starfish I found on my local beach. The red box is the area I am going to zoom into.



this is the result is if I just use a smart zoom that repixelates the image



But if I just use a increase the pixel size



You can see how the quality and detail is lost and artifacts and pixaltion starts to occur.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

What are you talking about? I see a city in there. There is a subway station and there is a school. Over there is a factory for producing tanks, and across the street is the temple. Don't tell me you can't see it?

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

OT - but I just wanted to say what an awesome starfish that is!

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

I posted the link in reference to my question and allow people to quote from source, should they want to.

I didn't comment on the points you raised because I have no comment on the lack of shadows? I can't answer as to the non presence of them. I can
say ' quite correct R.A.F. well spotted.'

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Round...everything is always round!

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/e...ers-closer.jpg

even his own pictures defy his logic

if you care to look at the above posted picture
in both shots there are craters (in the `unblurred' section) that clearly show bright/dark segments showing sun direction
ie at the tip of both `towers' there are clear unblurred craters shown(to the left of the left hand tower picture and slightly to the right and above for the right hand picture)

both of these craters show(by shadows) that the sun position would be around `7oclock' ie slightly to the left at the bottom of the shot and id estimate(purely by personal experience here on earth) that the altitude of the sun above the horizon would be around 45 deg(does anyone have the lunar `time' they are taken at-i havent been able to find that out in terms of the lunar `day'

anyway-back to my point-the shadows `should' if these towers existed-be upwards and slightly to the right if you look at the shadows everywhere else

but.....

these areas that the shadows `should be in' are also unblurred...

so are they not there and the blurring is an artifact

or are the towers there and blurred out by nasa-but the relucant photoshopper at nasa decided to leave us all a `clue' by blurring the tower,and didnt blur the shadow-but got them all to turn the big spotlights on the tower on so that the shadow disappeared..

edit to add
look at the scale at the top of his image-lat/long-resolution 1km per pixel image size 768x768 pixels...

that makes those towers over 500 km tall!!!

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No, I'm being ordinarily sarcastic. Don't make me get very sarcastic. You wouldn't like me when I'm very sarcastic. - JayUtah



Surely if you are going to start a conspiracy theory it is best to start with something that might have a grain of truth or reality in it. To start with the preposterous and go downhill from there is just stupid. steve(primus) (Avatar)

So you are "content" to have this board completely debunk every single item on Skipper's site?? As I previously posted, it's obvious Skipper doesn't know what he is talking about...so it's kind of a waste to continue to discuss him...

But I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't, so carry on...

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

It would probably be better if Skipper himself could come on the board and defend his theories, but something tells me that would never happen.

[QUOTE=boppa both of these craters show(by shadows) that the sun position would be around `7oclock' ie slightly to the left at the bottom of the shot and id estimate(purely by personal experience here on earth) that the altitude of the sun above the horizon would be around 45 deg(does anyone have the lunar `time' they are taken at-i havent been able to find that out in terms of the lunar `day'

anyway-back to my point-the shadows `should' if these towers existed-be upwards and slightly to the right if you look at the shadows everywhere else

but.....

these areas that the shadows `should be in' are also unblurred...

so are they not there and the blurring is an artifact

or are the towers there and blurred out by nasa-but the relucant photoshopper at nasa decided to leave us all a `clue' by blurring the tower,and didnt blur the shadow-but got them all to turn the big spotlights on the tower on so that the shadow disappeared..QUOTE]

Is it relevant that this pixelation is in a triangle shape....but the other blurring is kind of random?

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Round...everything is always round!

i have absolutely no idea if its relevant or not

but it certainly seems relevant to me that where the shadow of the `tower' should be its not only not there-but imho it should be in an `unblurred area' that hasnt been `touched up' by the mystery blur tool artist

suggesting imho that the shadow doesnt exist
ie the tower doesnt either

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No, I'm being ordinarily sarcastic. Don't make me get very sarcastic. You wouldn't like me when I'm very sarcastic. - JayUtah



Surely if you are going to start a conspiracy theory it is best to start with something that might have a grain of truth or reality in it. To start with the preposterous and go downhill from there is just stupid. steve(primus) (Avatar)

[quote=Eric Vaxxine][b]Have you tried to reproduce any of Skipper's pictures? I get the feeling different things would "appear" if you tried the same tricks. Does anyone else feel that would be a conclusive test of just how random this effect would be?

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Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Asimov's addition - "Or ignorance."

"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage

...and if Skipper can be so obviously wrong about such a simple thing (shadows), then what is the point in discussing his ideas...and "pixel issues", at all. Skipper is wrong, continued discussion will not change that...

...which is the point I was making earlier.

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

hey so im bored.....

actually i did to get to exercise a few of my failing braincells tonight-i saw something in the pictures that i didnt `feel' was right according to the authors explaination,had a bit of a thunk,did some searching and decided to explore further

this is something that everyone should indulge in imho

if something doesnt add up-look at it further and toss a few ideas around in ya skull..
just cause something is wrong,doesnt mean its not worthy of discussing

often looking at something that is `wrong' and trying to spot why it can be classified as such is again imho a good thing

promoting critical thinking can never be a bad thing ;-)

__________________
No, I'm being ordinarily sarcastic. Don't make me get very sarcastic. You wouldn't like me when I'm very sarcastic. - JayUtah



Surely if you are going to start a conspiracy theory it is best to start with something that might have a grain of truth or reality in it. To start with the preposterous and go downhill from there is just stupid. steve(primus) (Avatar)

often i like to just try and spot things that make me think
sometimes im right, sometimes im wrong

but i always seem to learn something even from the wrong things-one of the reasons i keep coming back here

__________________
No, I'm being ordinarily sarcastic. Don't make me get very sarcastic. You wouldn't like me when I'm very sarcastic. - JayUtah



Surely if you are going to start a conspiracy theory it is best to start with something that might have a grain of truth or reality in it. To start with the preposterous and go downhill from there is just stupid. steve(primus) (Avatar)

Does anyone know of a site with as much energy and research on Mars but it looks at what is obviously there?

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Round...everything is always round!

meaning?

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.