Welcome, Martindm.

As mentioned, aside from the proofs you exclude, the tracking of radio signals is a big proof that Apollo was real. There's something called a Doppler plot that was used to track what the craft was doing.

Amatuer astronomers were also to able to get images of the Apollo spacecraft conducting waste dumps. They also saw the gas cloud made by Apollo 13.

If I may ask (as others have done already), why don't you think NASA could send people past Earth orbit in those times?
We stopped doing it after Apollo 17 because the program was ended (it was meant to go on until Apollo 20, but those last missions were canceled due to budget cuts).
With new priorities, and a limited budget, NASA went with the shuttle program, a demanding vechile. It was hoped for the thing to pay for itself, but that never came to be.
The plan is for 2020 to give time for the new stuff to come out. The shuttle program gave us a few things to work with already, namely the SRBs and the ET (to be converted into a rocket stage itself). The new ship will already be in service, starting NLT 2012, so that give a good 10 or so years for the thing to prove itself. Also, it gives time and money to develope the new stuff to be used, which is to be better than Apollo.
And of course, we're not in a race, nor is there a giant budget to work with to make a speedy mission.

You have to give the geologists that studied the moon rocks credit. They're like forensic scientists, working in a similar manner. They can tell how a rock was formed, how old it was, where it came from, ect.
The moon rocks from Apollo show signs of having never been in contact with water or any moisture, forming in low gravity, and pitting from micrometeorites. Also, they have a certain chemical composition that sets them aside from meteorites found on Earth.

As for films and photos, there are many sites for info on them. Check out the BA's own on this site. Also look at Clavius.org.
You'll find some interesting stuff.

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I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid...and I went ahead anyway. - Crow T. Robot

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

Could they? Remember, this is 1969, Photoshop doesn't exist yet, nor the computer it could run on. We have had discussions on here of how, if one wanted to, you could fake this stuff and we have been unable to come up with methods to do so. Even today, it would probably be impossible.

For example, how do you have a studio that can simulate the low gravity, vacuum, and closer horizon of the moon, not just for the astronauts, but for the dust below their feet.

I have a PhD in solid state chemisty, yet I can not think of a completely convincing way to make a synthetic moon rock that would have all of the proper characteristics, let alone hundreds of pounds of fake rocks.

Then you will almost certainly be disappointed. As someone else asked, do you believe in atoms?

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009

So only Martindm's eye is able to determine reality, all the rest of us are deluded.

Not sure that's the company I'd want to keep.

Easy to prove one way or the other -

Ask the Russians

They have Moon rocks too - So if NASA have fake ones, so do the Russians

Hi, MartinDM, and welcome.

You'll have to be more specific about what "looks fake", but if you go through threads here and at apollohoax you'll see many, many examples of such "fake photo" claims debunked.

As far as the other stuff, other people have chimed in pretty well, but let me just add that the several hundred kilograms (not tons) of lunar samples include various differentiated samples, including core samples, which have have been authenticated by geologists worldwide.

The missions were tracked internationally tracked by governmental and non-governmental entities around the world. It is impossible to fake a signal from the Moon with an Earth-orbiting satellite. PW mentioned telemetry which was received through much of the 70s; this was from the ALSEP experiments from A12, 14, 15, 16, and 17. These experiments required setup and fueling by hand, with wired sensors spanning over as much as a hundred meters.

There's more - much, much, more - but one thing you simply cannot do is see the Apollo remains with a telescope from Earth. It's optically impossible with any existing telescope. As far as a lunar satellite observing the artifacts, why would you believe any such observation when it would come to you in the form of ones and zeros? How would you have any confidence in such an image?

Anyway, I suggest you read some of the relevant threads here and on apollohoax, because it's pretty much all been hashed over before. A lot.

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"Slapping a guy on the head is just as funny now as it was eighty years ago."

The moon rocks are some of the most conclusive evidence that we did indeed go to the Moon.

If you believe the Apollo lunar samples are faked, then you have to also believe that the Soviet / Russian lunar samples are faked. They share the same characteristics of lunar but non-terrestial samples. That would mean that the Soviets had to also be "in on it".

Then you'd have to look at the evidence that geologists put forward - that the lunar samples have characteristics that cannot be re-created here on Earth. So that would mean that all the worlds geologists (remember - samples have gone to many nations, not just US or allied nations) have also to be "in on it".

The conspiracy gets rather large, doesn't it?

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"For ignorance to reign, all it takes is for knowledgable people to say nothing"

Lonewulf

Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment - hard to fake placing mirrors on the surface of the moon that are still operational. It also seems illogical to repeat the hoax [manned moon landings] time and again.

You do realize that "I'll only believe it when I see it with my own eyes" is unworkable because there are many things you can't see, and it assumes a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude?

I've never seen the Concorde flying. Do I have to assume it never flew becasue i couldn't see it, and eyewitness accounts, video, publications and the like can be faked? Do I have to believe it is faked until somebody runs one down the strip and gets it into the air? I've never seen any of the land speed records. I've never seen the second world war.

The mere notion that evidence can be faked should not be the reason to dismiss. If the story doesn't "add up", if there's evidence things are faked, if there's no evidence that it is real, then you have reason to step away from the assumption of innocence.

But if you do that without reason, you're letting yourself slip into an unworkable world of paranoia.

(actually I'm quite sure I did see Concorde flying once, and that from another aircraft and after the Paris crash but before the subsequent grounding, but that aside )

Oh btw Apollo 11's flag fell over at launch, so you won't be able to see that one standing anyway .

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Concorde used to fly over my house in Greenwich every day on its way in to Heathrow

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'The eye can only see what the mind is prepared to accept'

Says you. I haven't seen it, for me it's fake until I see it flying.

(not seriously! I mean, I'm working at its successors! When not posting here...)

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

I don't want satelite based photos. I want to see it myself on a telescope. Not another photo

If that's what it takes for you to be convinced, then you have already chosen an unrealistic demand for proof and will never be convinced.

Is there a point, then, in continuing discussions with you? Will you ever be convinced, or have already chosen to believe the hoax side?

Pete

Just out of curiosity, is it possible even to see an atom, or the Heisenberg principle forbid it?

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PJE

There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.

An often overlooked, and underrated aspect of the Apollo missions was Apollo 12's crew landing near the Surveyor 3 craft (sent three years previously - April 1967) and bringing a piece of it back. I have included links to it below.

I have read many compelling pieces of evidence to support the Apollo missions, but I find this the most compelling. It was a heck of an achievement to land on the Moon, but the Apollo 12/ Surveyor 3 science is simply breathtaking.


http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990408.html
http://www.history.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/a12.html

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Of all the things I've ever lost, I miss my mind the most!

well they could have showed us a spare bit that never went to the moon, that proves nothing.!

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'The eye can only see what the mind is prepared to accept'

Like I said Captain... 'the Apollo 12/ Surveyor 3 science is simply breathtaking'.

Click the links and read all about why it couldn't be a spare part. Much the same as the science behind why they couldn't have faked the Moon rock - its just the Surveyor 3 part was exposed to the full blast of the Solar wind for much, much, MUCH less time than the samples of rock which were brought back..

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Of all the things I've ever lost, I miss my mind the most!

I've never seen you either, so how do I know you exist?

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009

This whole thread sounds like a 'what have the Romans ever done for us?' situation. The original question boils down to what evidence is there apart from all the evidence?

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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." The Doctor, Doctor Who: The Face of Evil.

Like all these threads it starts with a question about a detail that will make me believe. When that's answered theres anotehr question, then another and so on about every aspect until a question about some obscure detail can't be answered and then the CT er claims victory.

The board is full of threads exactly the same with the same questions.

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'The eye can only see what the mind is prepared to accept'

I dunno! Someone has experiencd the fury of the
sight and sound of a Saturn launch and now 35
years later wants to see the actual hardware
on the Moon with his own eyes! Its takes that
long for the memory to forget the awe I
suppose. Well I speculated a years ago they
should have left some 10 square yards of
mirror surface flat on the lunar surface so
that at certain times the Sun would reflect
back and am amateurs telescope catch it. And
two years ago I posted the possibilty of
seeing the Suns light relected back from the
larger of the laser reflectors during a partial
or total lunar ecipse. You would need to be on
the edge of the Earth between the Sun and Moon.
It would need to be a very clear day down to
the horizon where the Moon would be and a large
telescope imaging the location on the Moon of
the reflector. It might be possible with real
time contrast stretching to catch the few
moments the solar light returns. Lastly there
is the possibility of some ten million people
in an urban area shining laser pens at the
Moon to get a reflection but it may not be
enough. And the authorities might frown on
the idea