I still think a misalignment wouldn't help. The corner cube will reflect the light back in the direction of incidence only provided the photons strike it in the first place. IIRC, the coherent laser at point of transmission has a footprint of almost 7km by the time it hits the moon, so the number of photons striking the array is already small - any misalignment will reduce the surface area available for reflection still further.

Maybe not the most significant contributor to the superiority of the Apollo arrays, but it could still be an issue.

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No doubt an issue, but I think JonClarke agrees with that. If they do work well up to 45 degrees off, then that means the surface area presented is still cosine of 45 degrees, or 71% Less misalignment would mean quite a bit more. Probably, a misalignment of 45 would be a serious accident, or somehow a great mistake.

Agreed. I wonder how the alignment of the Lunokhod reflector was actually designed to work in operation? In other words, what mechanisms were in place to ensure that it didn't park itself on the slope of a crater/behind a big rock/under a Hoagland crystal structure?

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

AFAIK, the reflectors were rigidly mounted to the vehicle, so it was up to the vehicle operators to park it on a level surface facing due west, or whatever, before each night, and open the reflector cover. Presumably their main tool was the TV cameras.

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Light bounced back by a corner reflector is always reflected twice. If straight on each reflection is 90 degrees, otherwise one angle is the complementary of the other, for example 70 and 110 degrees. Any variations in optical performance by the low incidence angle reflections in one mirror should be cancelled by the high incidence in the other.

Does anyone have any idea how the Lunokhod 1 mission ended? Was it just swtiched off at the end of its tasks, or did it fail suddenly?

If it was switched off then it would intended have been left in a position where the reflector would not have been obscured by an antenna. If the rover can't be found then 1) maybe there was an operator error during parking (unlikely), 2) there has been some accident after mission termination that destroyed the reflector (also unlikely), or people have been looking in the wrong place (intriguing, and suggested by several people).

If the mission failed aruptly, I can think of three possibilities: 1) during driving, when fortuitously an antenna blocks the line of site (low probability but possible), 2) the rover ended up on a very steep slope (unlikely as such are rare on the Moon slopes could be easily avoided), 3) the rover failed overnight when the upper deck carrying the reflector was protected by the hinged lid (quite possible). In addition maybe again the searches have been in the wrong place.

A division of where I work does laser geodesy. I will ask round and sees if anyone knows about using their ground station to target Lunokhod and Apollo sites. I know they bounce things of the Moon. I used to work as a visitor's guide at the observatory where this is done and one night a visitor was heard to state that the laser beam was a landing aid for UFOs!

Jon

According to this, they just lost communications one day. Attempts to use it for LLR have been unsuccessful.

I was hoping for something for specific than that.

So were they

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what would be the point of lying, y would the government say they wer going to the moon just to say it, they stated that they were going to the moon because they were, there's no point in telling the u.s. that they wer launching for the moon for no reason.

Hi. Welcome to the board.

The hoax believers say the U.S. faked it and made the claim just for prestige but - setting aside all the evidence - the HBs then have to make up stories about the Soviets, who certainly would have known if it really was impossible.

What's worse is that the U.S. would have had to fake it successfully in the face of the certainty of scientific advancement. That is simply impossible.

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No need to be facious. Was contact lost in the middle of driving? Did they fail to make contact at the start of a shift? Did it fail to revive at the lunar dawn. There are lots of possibilities that are encompassed by "they lost contact one day".

Jon

I love the one where the HBs claim it was to beat the Soviets, but then claim that the reason the Soviets didn't spill the beans was because the US bribed them to shut up.

Can you imagine someone bribing their main rival at the Olympics to not only pull out of the race and shut up about them cheating to get the gold?

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It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Yes, isn't that how it usually works? OK, maybe not pull out, maybe pull up, but the Soviets didn't exactly disappear in the space race, either.

If it had been fake, Armstrong would have made a second take.

If it had been fake, Armstrong would have made a second take.

laughs! This is true. The number of things they goofed up, if it had been faked all the director had to do was to yell cut and re-take the scene. (John Young and the Heat flow, breaking the rover wheel gaurds, dropping the antenna wire......)

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

And why fake Shepard's golf swing or the feather and hammer thing? What would be the point? They'll argue something like it makes it more human and natural, more interesting and thus more convincing. They can't seem to picture how it would look without the extra stuff. It would look just like an old scifi movie, like 2001. Dull and boring but more professional looking and probably more convincing...if it was fake.

EDIT to add: more professional looking. I wouldn't want Buzz to knock me on my kiester.

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

In the end, had NASA really faked it, the missions would have been nothing like we see with Apollo, plain and simple.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Lunokhod 1 failed to revive after a lunar night, Lunokhod 2 stopped responding during the day. In view of that, I'd expect Lunokhod 1 to be the one that was parked correctly.

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Al Bean pointing the camera at the sun....

(You know, I have just finally gotten to the point where I can forgive him for that... )

If the mission had been faked they would have made one landing without a camera. The initial EVA would have “determined” that radiation levels one the moon were too high, causing an early ending of the mission with only the contingency sample and the cancellation of future plans. That way the small amount of lunar soil from the unmanned sample return mission that we call Apollo 10 would be within the reasonable expectation of the public. Someone at NASA would then suggest that all these rocket parts on order could be used to build a space station. That way all the corporate conspirators would get even fatter change orders to modify their already fat contracts.

I am sure that all the engineers, astronauts and other NASA employees that had worked for years, in some cases sacrificing their entire family life for a chance to explore the moon, would just have gone along with the ruse. No problem.

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