When I look at this picture I can't see anything that is 15 feet higher than the outer wall. Can you post something that shows what you're talking about?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-8006r-003.jpg


You also say the object on the right in the upper right hand picture is smoke.

Yes, and I explained why. Your mindless insistence that it cannot possibly be smoke is frankly growing tiresome. you have claimed the picture is obviously clear enough to determine with certainty that the object is not smoke; if so, how is it that all the other objects in the photo, both near and far, appear fuzzy and indistinct?

Now do you expexct me to trust your judgement when you speak authoratively
It would look more like this.
http://images.google.es/imgres?imgur...ng_en%26sa%3DN
Scroll down to the second picture .

As I explained, the smoke in the one photo is denser and more compact, as it has just emerged from the engine.

I wouldn't call that photo an anomaly; I would call it clear proof that blows the official version out of the water. There is no ovewhelming evidence against this. Everything you've presented has other explanations so it's nothing compared to real photo evidence.

The "other explanations" are generally wildly improbable, requiring a vast conspiracy with dozens of conspirators. Who in his or her right mind would participate in such a plan, when any one of those involved could blow the whistle and send all of his or her fellows to death row??

All one has to do is look at the photo and compare the double the height of the Pentagon at the point on the wall that's equadistant with the craft from the camera to see that it's too small to be a 757. It doesn't take any special training.

You are ignoring what I just wrote. Allowing for the apparent length due to the approximately 45 degree angle of the aircraft, it would be about 1.67 times the height of 60 feet, or about 100 feet.

You guys really seem hesitant to do the math even though it's easy for you to do. Is it because you know it proves that a 757 is too small to fit in the space? If it isn't, do the math and prove your point.

Mike J. Wilson's SolidWorks model does all the math and geometry far more accurately than any person ever could. Or do you think that SolidWorks Corp. is in on the conspiracy, too??

__________________
--Doug

"When your statics problem becomes a dynamics problem, you're in trouble." --me

Moor's Law: "As you go from freshman engineering to Ph.D., the amount of work required per credit hour doubles approximately every 18 months." --me, inspired by Prof. Scott Moor

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...dodvideos.html
You guys really make yourselves look silly when you say the object is smoke. I can understand why you do it though; you can't say 9/11 was an inside job. I can assure you though that you all look completely silly.
This is what smoke looks like.
http://0911.site.voila.fr/index3.htm
This is what the nose of plane looks like.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/...gon1_plane.jpg

Of course it varies in length. The further away it is, the smaller it looks. We have to take the point of the wall that is equadistant with the craft from that camera. Then we can see how long 150 feet is at the point where the craft is.

We know where it is by this picture.
http://0911.site.voila.fr/index1.htm
This one too.
http://www.students.ipfw.edu/~lambdl...20Pentagon.jpg

I already have.
I tell you to disprove it if you think I'm wrong and you say it's my responsibility to do the math because you've already done the math and it proves that whatever hit the Pentagon was too small to be a 757.

Big parts could have been planted in the building before the crash. Just because it was reported that pieces of skin were found doesn't mean it's true. If pieces of skin were found, there may have been a few bodies in the plane. The CIA could get a few bodies if it wanted to.

Here in Spain the press seems to be controlled by the same group that controls the US press.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ru...rbergClub.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Me...a_Control.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Me...dia_watch.html
Enter "media" in this search engine for more.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/htdig/search.html

Sorry but the nose of the craft in this picture is quite clear.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/...gon1_plane.jpg
The other one wouldn't be much different.

You guys don't seem to realize how silly you sound when you deny the obvious. The nose of a 757 looks very different from the nose in the above picture.

If the press is complicit in the conspiracy, they would refuse to publish it. Also, if the FBI confiscated videos from hotels and gas stations, how do we know that there weren't agents around to take cameras away from people too?

I said I hadn't done precise calculations because the difference in size was great enough for it to be obvious. It looks about the right size. If I thought it wasn't the right size, I wouldn't have used it.

I don't see anything that's 15 feet higher than the outer wall in the picture.

You're pathetic.
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...dodvideos.html

You misunderstood what I meant by skin. I meant the skin of the plane. Multiple large pieces were found on the lawn.

The press can't control everything. One can easily go to a different source, to a different country, or post whatever they want to on the internet. Not everything can ever possibly be controlled.

DavidC you are hopeless. All of this has been explained to you multiple times. So why are you still here?

__________________
"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

Oh good night...

Just in case it wasn't obvious to everyone else, this is no different than Martian Rock Sheep or Solid Iron Sun arguments. David C has convinced himself that he can see things in images that aren't there, and will never understand why others don't agree with him. If you want to continue to argue for the sake of argument, fine, but it will never go further than that, and I think even the lurkers are getting tired of this particular brick wall. Certainly I am.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Oh good night...

You took the words right out of my mouth.

__________________
--Doug

"When your statics problem becomes a dynamics problem, you're in trouble." --me

Moor's Law: "As you go from freshman engineering to Ph.D., the amount of work required per credit hour doubles approximately every 18 months." --me, inspired by Prof. Scott Moor

David C,

Have you ever been to Washington, DC? Do you know where the Pentagon is? There are major roads, highways, all kinds of public buildings around it. Are you saying that within seconds of the crash that the FBI or CIA or something came in, planted all this evidence (plane parts, human parts) in front of hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses, and managed to silence all of these people?

Look at the pictures on the websites linked below. You will notice media people, hundreds of fire department and medical personnel, and many ordinary citizens. You will notice major interstates with cars going by. Everyone of them has been silienced?

LINK 1
LINK 2

Yet, all of that is disproven because of one blurry (yes, blurry!) photo that YOU say shows some plane that isn't a 757. Maybe you need to step back from this and think how illogical your idea is.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

David C is taking a few days off.

__________________
Forming opinions as we speak

Swift, he already said that he thinks this scenario might be possible pages ago.

__________________
"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach 1830-1916
our animal welfare board and organisation

I hate it when somebody gets banned before I can get caught up.

__________________
You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

OK, so this gives me a little more time. That women downstairs just resists of getting tired...

__________________
"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach 1830-1916
our animal welfare board and organisation

And at the time this was posted, I was at the Air Force Museum taking pictures of the tails of various aircraft for comparison to the tail seen on that one picture... If only I could find a link to it.

__________________
I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

I'm sorry, but you cant disagree with a fact. It is a fact that at the distance your "fighter" is from the camera the resolution is 2 feet per pixel. It is a fact that there is not enough information in the image to determine "pointy noses" or "shadow lines"

__________________
Reality is for those that can't handle video games.

How can you think that the press in Spain is controlled by the US? How about the British press? they take great delight in embarrassing the powers that be!

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To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
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For when you come back, David C....

Look at the first frame shown in these photos from the very site you gave us.
What once was a blob that appearent was confused for being a nose cone now takes on an odd shope; it looks like a curly fry.

How do you explain this?

Also, from the image that you claim shows the nose cone of an aircraft, do you not see the longer object in front of the white cloud that is blurry?
If so, what do you think it is?

Note that I emphasize the word you, because I want to make clear that I do not want links to what other people think. I want your opinion.

Also, I just want to say again about the physical evidence...
You say it's plausible for the stuff to be planted. Unfortunately, it's not a logical assumption.
You're talking about hundreds of pieces being placed into a burning building. And all this must be done without anyone noticing.

You have no proof of planted evidence. None whatsoever.
All you have is speculation, nothing more.

This mere speculation of yours, combined with an errrornous interpretation of a few photos is nowhere near "blowing the offical story out of the water", as you say. It is all you have on your side.

On the side of our claims is the physical evidence of the crash. You see, we're not limited to a few frames of a traffic cam as evidence that supports our claims. The debris from the plane, and human remains, as well as radar data, support our claims.

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat these phrases:
I can assure you that your speculation is not logical.
My advice to you is to read up on Occam's Razor.
There is a great phrase dealing with it that definately applies to this discussion:
Your introduction of planted witnesses, people planting evidence, ect, are examples of multipling entities. With no evidence for your speculations regarding these claims, they are not necessary.

Please read this and think about it when you return.

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

You obviously don't read many ATM threads. Folks disagree with or ignore facts all the time. What are mere facts compared to wild image misinterpretation?

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Well, This is my Very First post in your Forum and Hopefully i wont step on someones toes in it.
It Started out reading the BA pages- then i found the Forum much later i read all about the moon hoax and Mars Face( the instigator to finding this great site- when i was Debunking the Artificial face "theory" to a person who Just... Did ... NOT.... get it..)
Now i have read through THIRTY SIX pages of this Planted evidence and lies and planted bodies and mysterious dissappearing act of a plane, crew and passengers... All centered on this guy David C. MANY times i considered registering (finally) and posting a reply- only to have someone point it out later anyway. (e.g. WHY would the government issue out the evidence against it? and WHY stage all this craziness to begin with?) That photo looks like a UFO (pun not intended i MEAN E.T> UFO ) to me. it looks just like those blurry insubstantial photos enthusiasts always pull out and say "Look, Somethings there!" BUT there is ONE thing that several Eluded to.. but never Said. So ill say it. THIRTY SIX PAGES? you are NOT going to enlighten David C.!!! i mean ive been reading these forums a while- i recognize names personalities- i almost feel like i chat with you (absurd, i know, but thats the exposure) Most everyone in here is "Obviously" a rational thinker, fair and and logical... Yet you Continue to Argue Pointlessly with a Character who is Incapable of seeing Reason. thats as silly as him going to CT sites. it Wont happen. He Wont give in. He is like Many people i have known in my life... you Just Cannot Argue with these people. You CaNNoT.... i kept reading. Dont know why... and the only thing i can think of, more than ANYTHING and many in here pointed this out.. Is the FAMILIES. David C. is Completely Dissrespecting these peoples Families, ( I keep writing and rewriting and i CANT say what im trying to without it comming out in a way that might be objectionable.) So ill quote a reference thats Well Known and a Man in it named Mark who said Dont Engage in Frivilous Debates. (no reference given for obvious reasons) i Think? his User name was Freddy makes a very good point as to why.. and its utterly pointless trying to convince the Blind to See.

Cavid C is not the only person reading these threads. We hope to teach/demonstrate critical thinking skills. David C might not learn anything, but another reader might! That is the only reason to allow nonspace related CT here.

__________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

David C might not learn anything, but another reader might! That is the only reason to allow nonspace related CT here.

Unfortunately, a few woo-woos have managed to relate the September 11 attacks to space. See here.

__________________
--Doug

"When your statics problem becomes a dynamics problem, you're in trouble." --me

Moor's Law: "As you go from freshman engineering to Ph.D., the amount of work required per credit hour doubles approximately every 18 months." --me, inspired by Prof. Scott Moor

Moderator i understand that- But it was Also getting Noticably frustrating to several members as well as painful to some.
So i will post for David C. When presenting a case - Research your answer. Use creditable, sources. Avoid tabloids. Or those who Speculate or Invent answers to Suit.
When i was debunking the Mars Face is Artificial "theory" to a man, i got BOOKS. Spectography, Psychology ( seeing what isnt there- the BA has an Outstanding example about Lenin appearing in his shower), Differential Equations, Angular mechanics, Photography and Digital enhancement of....- its a long list. i spent nearly two weeks Reading up on the issue first. Then i placed my stand. As a Plumber i cant tell people "I don't Know". If a customer asks me a question i don't know the answer to, ill get back to them on it and Look into it FIRST, rather than speculate or Invent an answer to Look Smart. Ive been plumbing a long time and im not above Reading a book on the subject. because an Informed Postition is Much better then an UNinformed postition. This is a Healthy Bit of Advice for anyone. If you Choose to Respond David C.. ill most likely Not respond. If others choose to do so--- <chuckle> then they will. But ill remain as i was before- Silent.

Moderator i understand that- But it was Also getting Noticably frustrating to several members as well as painful to some.

Welcome, Neverfly. Just to clarify for you, Tinaa wasn't necessarily wearing her moderator hat when she replied to your post; many regular posters would have written similar answers (except possibly the last sentence--I think she was wearing her mod hat for that).

So i will post for David C. When presenting a case - Research your answer. Use creditable, sources. Avoid tabloids. Or those who Speculate or Invent answers to Suit.

Sadly, many conspiracists consider these to be the most credible sources, as most members of the mainstream media and academia are afraid to print The Truth^TM, for fear of losing their jobs or their lives.

When i was debunking the Mars Face is Artificial "theory" to a man, i got BOOKS. Spectography, Psychology ( seeing what isnt there- the BA has an Outstanding example about Lenin appearing in his shower), Differential Equations, Angular mechanics, Photography and Digital enhancement of....- its a long list. i spent nearly two weeks Reading up on the issue first. Then i placed my stand.

Very impressive--we'd love to have you as a regular contributor.

This is a Healthy Bit of Advice for anyone. If you Choose to Respond David C.. ill most likely Not respond. If others choose to do so--- <chuckle> then they will. But ill remain as i was before- Silent.

Lurkers are definitely welcome, too (although I've heard that the bb software starts to nag you if you don't post for a while ).

__________________
--Doug

"When your statics problem becomes a dynamics problem, you're in trouble." --me

Moor's Law: "As you go from freshman engineering to Ph.D., the amount of work required per credit hour doubles approximately every 18 months." --me, inspired by Prof. Scott Moor

UFO's are Disguising themselves as Stealth Bombers and Attacking us now?
Why bother? with that technology they could attack straight out right? oooh thats right. I saw the Historical Document of MIB. They Need to work Undercover. I hope "J" & "K" catch these rogues...

my security settings on my computer cause me a bit of trouble actually,, replying isnt easy and i usually have to sign in four times. UGH im going to make a Simple comment again since you Reminded me...
What REALLY bugs me is how they claim to work for Truth. i consider myself a "Seeker of truth" because Opinions dont matter, beliefs dont matter, Truth matters. it Lies beneath all the things we try to pile on top of it.. but its ALWAYS there. it doenst need a source to exist. it exists Regardless of anyones Opinion. Our job is to seek out and find truth. These guys who "claim" to do that- for the sake of fame or money are not living by truth, and use deceit as a means to promote their "truths".
That they claim so ferverently to be seeking truth is appalling...

Make sure that you have cookies enabled for www.bautforum.com and it should hopefully fix it, otherwise PM me or ask on About BAUT to see if anyone else can help.

Welcome, neverfly. I, for one, have mentioned the families. So have several others. According to David C, they're in on it, too--or at least, the victims are. Never mind that there's no evidence for this. Because there's no evidence that it isn't true--at least, evidence he trusts, which is any evidence at all, so far as I can tell--he won't listen.

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Yes my system blocks ALL cookies- ill exempt your site later when i have time
Yes i saw youru posts and others posts about the families and that was a big motivator for me to pipe up.
a Consipracy isnt like movies --its a HARD thing to pull off!! Even a Former president who had issues with his pants couldnt keep THAT a secret and Very Few people were involved...
he Wont listen to You or me or anyone else but there IS One Person he trusts and WILL listen to and That is Himself....
By Learning what he doesnt Know NOW, the elusive details he cannot explain... Learning the science behind why(the government CANT alter or change a thousand years of math and science- our machines wouldnt work if they did! < Creditable reliable source- a Textbook on Physics) THEN he can understand what didnt previousl make sense and He Will convince himself!



No comment on the Odds..........

Actually, he seems at odds with himself on this one. He has said both that the "victims" are alive and well and living secret identities somewhere, and that they were murdered en masse at a secret military base.

Oh, and welcome to BAUT, Neverfly!

__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

Yes i Read that Jim about her living under a new identity...
And in the Conspiracy circle thats apparently a Common theme.. so i have a Question- maybe you guys have had this question before and can provide information or links..
How do I Become one of these Paid Off and new Identity People!?!
Can i Apply somewhere? is there a little Building Labled Wastewater Management But is ACTUALLY the Human Resources Dept, for applying?
Does it come with medical and Dental? This pay off.. What Kind of Salary is it?
With my Shiny NEW Identity will ALL my traffic tickets dissappear?
Will it Fix my Credit? Do they Provide Housing?
i don't know but this sounds like a GREAT DEAL to me!

You have to be the passenger on the "right" flight...

__________________
"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach 1830-1916
our animal welfare board and organisation