jt-3d, I can't see anything in that photo very clearly.

Do bodies mutilated by a bomb and bodies mutilated by a high-speed plane crash have no characteristics which would permit experts to distinguish between the two sources of injury? Is "it looks like" the standard of evidence for forensic pathology as it is for paranoid conspiracy theory hucksters?

AA77 was hijacked sometime between 8:51 AM (when the last routine radio communication from the plane was received) and 8:54 AM (when the radar transponder was turned off). The Pentagon was hit at 9:37 AM.

That gives the eevil gummint conspirators a maximum of 46 minutes to land flight 77 somewhere secret, remove the passengers, kill them, fake the effects of a high-sped crash on the bodies, load the bodies onto another plane, fly to Washington, transfer the bodies to road vehicles, drive them to the Pentagon and then plant them, along with the FDR and engines, landing gear and other debris, in locations consistent with the damage done to the building, at a disaster scene swarming with people, none of whom noticed this activity going on.

This is what PCTers consider more plausible than a hijacked airliner deliberately crashed into the Pentagon?

Flying Spaghetti Monster grant me patience...

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Please enjoy your trip through this door.

Just for the record David C, this is at least the 2nd time you're bringing your political views where they don't belong. I suggest you re-read the forum rules.

Also, why don't you explain to us what is in the video, giving us your own summery, rather than just the one linear on your political interpretation?

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This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

This post replaces the angry rant which I deleted after a few minutes.

It's nonsense to assume that those who don't by the 9/11 CTs simply buy the government line, or only read certain "tame" sources, or for that matter that the regulars here do. It is also trivially easy to ascertain that many of the regulars here are not Americans.

A little more "work" (what would pass for work amongst conspiracists, anyway) would reveal that many of the American regulars have - let's say, little regard for the current Administration. To the CT, that's a contradiction; if you don't believe the eeevil gubmint didn't blow it all up and fake everything and magically make planeloads of passengers disappear and a thousand other things which contradict each other almost as much as they contradict how the real world works, then you must be an unthinking follower. That's not so, of course, but that is irrelevant to the conspiracist.

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"Slapping a guy on the head is just as funny now as it was eighty years ago."

Let's not forget that the official story is also a conspiracy theory. Also, building #7 came straight down, as in an explosive demolition. It did not topple to one side or another as would a structure that had been severely damaged on one face...But here's what I want to know. Did anybody see the CNN special the other night (Broken Goverment, I think)? It has a fascinating clip of the second jet hitting the South Tower. I slowed it down to look at it some more. The aircraft has a distinct blue/gray tint to it. That doesn't mean it wasn't an airliner. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.

Indeed, but one that has the preponderance of evidence to date supporting it, in that we know these men were in the US, that a number took flight training, they were on the speified flights, and that they had links to terrorist groups associated with Osama Bin Laden. So it was a conspiracy, but one we've mostly figured out..

Ummm, the fires that raged inside unchecked probably also had something to do with weakening th ebuilding, and one part of it failed the rest failed relatively quickyl, and gravity took over--and even so, a fair amount of the building landed "outside the footprint" and all over the street and buildings across the street.

Well, the blue/grey tint may help confirm it, as United Airlines has a paint scheme that could easily be seen that way--see here: http://www.air-and-space.com/2006030...ke-off%20l.jpg

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JayUtah wrote:
The marketplace of ideas ensures that each item is put on display, but does not compel its purchase.

Thanks for the reply, Hutch... Still think bldg #7 was "pulled", as stated by Larry Silverstein (the leaseholder) in an interview. That interview, however, has subsequently been re-interpreted by Silverstein's people as referring to the "pulling" of an emergency crew that was in the building and needed to be recalled...I really do wish the official CT answered the main questions about 9/11. Just not sure that it does. sf

Which became very public and well known after the event. The CT argument is that the government has somehow been able to hide all their involvement even after the event.

Why do you think building 7 was damaged only on one face? Why would you expect a large building to topple to one side, despite the force of gravity pulling it down?

There is extensive evidence of serious internal damage to the building. Regardless, no tall building would just topple - gravity will pull it down. For all that, this was far from a clean collapse.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Now that's funny. Just who is doing the re-interpretation? In demolition, they would "drop" a building. It is the CTers argument that "pull" refers to dropping the building. According to you, if somebody says it doesn't, that is re-interpreting?

Mind, this has been covered here a dozen times. You could search for previous discussions.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Bingo(pun intended) I should have been more clear.

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"Man has always found it easier to sacrifice his life than learn the multiplication table." - Somerset Maugham

Not too straight, and not much like a controlled demolition at all.

Actually, as was pointed out, the re-interpreting is being done by conspiracy theorists.

Moreover, FDNY had collapse indicators on the building hours before it collapsed:

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"Slapping a guy on the head is just as funny now as it was eighty years ago."

What would be the point of all this? why not just crash the thing into the Pentagon???

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Clearly they only had 2 of those "Global Hawk Remote Control Thingummyjigs"(tm) which they used up on the WTC...

One of the better questions i've heard. I'd like to hear a response from a ct person.

It is. As someone pointed out once, if you are going to claim that a 757 slammed into it, then you better darn well make sure that you have a 757 slam into it.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Exactly. What if a tourist had caught it on a picture or a camera phone? If you are going to claim it is a 757, it is just much easier to use a 757.

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"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

As I've said, repeatedly: You have to make the lie fit the "Truth" as accurately as possible.

If I plan to rob a bank and use a stolen licence plate on my car to avoid detection, I'm going to steal the plate from the same year, make, and color as my car. If the plate comes back to an '85 Chevy Pick up and it's on a red Acura, it will be obvious that it's stolen. If it comes back to a red Acura, Bob Smith is getting a visit from the SWAT team tonight.

I would think that this concept would be tought in the first week of Conspiracy School, About the same time as, the chance of getting away with it goes down as the number of people involved goes up.

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I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

The government introduced unneeded levels of complexity into the plot in order to cast a light of foolishness on those trying to expose the plot.

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In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1

Though due to unclarity I obviously can't say things for sure, and official sources identify the white part as the aircraft, I tend to agree (as discussed earlier) that the plane can be seen in front of the white rather than as the white itself, supported by the white still hanging around after the explosion.

btw this analysis (if you can call us looking at a blurry pic that ) is not a BAUT exclusive thing; it had been found more than a year earlier by somebody else who put it on the internet. So I don't want any "claim to fame" over it; I merely say that I think this identification is more likely than the white being the aircraft.

What certainly is clear from it, is that this camera had a better angle than the one used in the picture with the outline David C showed, as there an object is in front of or very close to the plane in that pic. And the shape inside the outline of that pic looks to me like a stretched out Daffy Duck flying, but I will refrain from building a theory around that .

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Actually I believe that the forward part of the white is indeed part of the plane, the wing and engine cowling. I came to this conclusion based on their position and the fact that the plane that was used for Flight 77 that day did indeed have cream coloured wings and engines.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

I will not discuss this any further, because due to the fuzzy nature of the picture I see no grounds for any of both visions to be clearly right or wrong. It's not a case of "agree to disagree" here. It's simply that I think A is more likely, you think B is more likely. And I'm perfectly happy with that given the pooor picture quality. And frankly, it doesn't really matter what blob is the plane, what matters is that it was flown into the pentagon.

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

I will not discuss this any further, because due to the fuzzy nature of the picture I see no grounds for any of both visions to be clearly right or wrong. It's not a case of "agree to disagree" here. It's simply that I think A is more likely, you think B is more likely. And I'm perfectly happy with that given the pooor picture quality. And frankly, it doesn't really matter what blob is the plane, what matters is that it was flown into the pentagon.

I don't think we're likely to overly disagree from what I see you saying. To me there is a fuzzy silver object a similar shape and colour to the Flight 77 AA 757, and from that silver object appears to be a white/cream object that would correspond to a position where a wing and engine should be. Flight 77 had cream coloured wings and engine. Then there is what appears to be white smoke or dust behind the wing, something that is repeated in the later images and would seem to indicate that the engine had injested something and was smoking. While it is very blurred and not very easy to see,what I see after having looked at the images a lot, is that Flight 77 is there, in exactly the colours one would expect it to be, just that the image isn't designed to taken a picture of the shadowed side of a plane 200m away.

__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Here's my take.

__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

One small issue with the "Global Hawk " story

taken from from http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=175

12 1/2 tonns impacting the frontage of the Pentagon would have crumbled like a balse plane thrown at a concrete wall....

Well, that and It would take a lot more than one to rip out all the light poles, not that they would have bee likely to stay ariborne after such an impact. Witnesses would surely have reported a swarm of planes, if this were the case.

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I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

I misunderstood you; indeed we do agree ingeneral lines (I would place the engine more forward, but anyway)

The official identification doesn't agree with us, but I must say that this identification was more like a side remarks than a stressed topic in the official source making it.

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

It'd a good thing the video isn't the sole piece of evidence for the crash of Flight 77.
The picture is very fuzzy, it's hard to make out what's what.

I recall someone at LC trying to use the testimony of a person at a gas station, probably the Citgo station, that said he saw no signs of a large plane hitting the Pentagon. Anyone ever here of this idea?

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This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

Horsehockey. AA uses gray. There is no cream color in AA scheme.

EDIT: Ok that one picture I linked looks cream on the engine cowling but it isn't. It's gray. The wings are metal. They aren't cream either.

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

Just a few days ago in another CT thread (can't remember which one) David C tried to say that the CITGO station had video that was being kept secret. Another BAUT forumite (climbhazzard?) linked him to an article proving it was released about a month ago. Sorry - just woke up, and my memory hasn't been jogged by cofee yet. But it's here in the CT forum somewhere...

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher