I don"t know if this has ever been brought up before but I was wondering about the timeline for Apollo and the Presidential pardon for Nixon. They seem to coincide. If you listen to the audio of the pardon, the pardon is for July 20, 1969 through Aug. 9, 1974. Apollo 11 landed on the moon on July 20, 1969! The last Apollo mission planned, Apollo 20, would have been around December of 1973. Apollo moon landings were proposed in 1967 and to end 1973-4?

Actually, the "NIxon did it" idea is fairly common, and also misguided.

__________________
"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

Well, I'll take your dates for granted, but I'll take a stab at answering your query......

Perhaps, coincidence? Why in the world (or moon) would the pardon of Nixon in a political matter have anything to do with the Apollo program? After all, the Apllo program began long before Nixon was in office, let alone even think about the Watergate business.

This is just another example HB'ers grasping at any event to make hay of events simply to make something of nothing.

There has to be a psychological reason for people to feel compelled to do such things. Or maybe it is just monetary,

tbm

__________________
Paddle faster!! I hear banjo music!!

Are you sure the first date is correct? Could it be January 20, 1969? That is the day Nixon was inaugurated and that would make sense that the pardon would cover everything from day 1. See Jay's Clavius page for more here.

__________________
I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

From Watergate.info

Note: The proclamation granted Nixon a pardon for all offenses from January 20, 1969, the day he was first inaugurated as president. In reading the proclamation on national television, Ford inadvertently said 'July 20'. The text of the proclamation takes precedence.

He just misspoke. Nothing sinister about it. The man had only been in office 1 month (a position he did not run for or get elected to) and was issuing a pardon he knew would cause lots of unrest in the country. Give him a break

Edit to add: In fact on the site I listed above you can see the actual pardon document

Attached Thumbnails

   

__________________
I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

Apollo moon landings were proposed in 1967 and to end 1973-4?

Huh?

Apollo (well at that time a program leading to landing a man on the moon by the end of 1970) was proposed in 1958 shortly after the formation of NASA from its predecessor, NACA, and the amalgamation of ABMA and JPL into the new organisation occurred, not 1967. Initial plans were started under Eisenhower, who approved Project Mercury, funded the Saturn Rocket Programme and gave his go ahead on the contracting of Aerospace Companies for the Mercury follow up, Project Apollo. Apollo was announced publicly in July of 1960.

Apollo had its roots in the final NACA report which stated that the new agency's goals for the upcoming decade should be focused on manned exploration of the solar system, starting with the Moon. (A rather ambitious goal since at that time they were still 4 years away from the first Mercury flight.) After the formation of NASA there were numerous meetings to discuss the possibility of a lunar landing, could they do it, and if so, what approaches should be taken to it.

At Van Braun's first meeting with the new Director of NASA, Keith Glennan, he spoke highly enthusiastically of and even present a proposal for the first moon landing with the use of the, then, yet to be designed Saturn Rocket Family. Glennan was impressed enough by Von Braun, and the numerous reports (including a 1959 congressional report in which they polled the Aerospace industry itself) that stated that a lunar landing was preferred over a space station as a follow up from Mercury, to pass the proposal on to Eisenhower and ask for the ABMA to be incorporated into NASA (along with JPL and its team under William Pickering [had to get a Kiwi connection in here somehow. ].)

Eisenhower declared that the Saturn Rocket project was to be given the highest priority rating for development and hardware procurement. He also gave the go ahead on the proposed lunar program, by that time Project Apollo, and at the end of July, 1960, NASA held a conference with 1,300 representatives of the American Aerospace industry and the Government where they released their plans and challenged those at the conference to come up with equipment that would do it.

Much of this planning was actually put in jeopardy less than six months later when Kennedy won the 1960 Presidential Election. Apollo was moved to the back burner because Kennedy wasn't at all interested in the idea and it had been a Republican plan. In fact Kennedy almost killed Apollo. Had it not been for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs, and that he really needed something grand to rectify the problem, Apollo may never have happened. Instead Lyndon Johnson (then chairman on a senate board on spaceflight and a huge spaceflight supporter) convinced Kennedy that not only did the space programme have merit, but also that if they could beat the Soviets in space it would be a great step forward for the US. Kennedy took up the challenge and instead of cancelling Apollo and possibly even Mercury, threw his weight in behind them and as they say, the rest become history.

Actually here again the HB often miss a lot by not knowing the real history of Apollo. Most people think Apollo started with Kennedy in 1961, when in fact it isn't true, it began in 1958, three years earlier. Most people think that Kennedy imposed Apollo and the timeline of 1970 on NASA, but in reality Kennedy asked them when they could do it, and they replied, by the end of 1970. Why? Because that was what all their reports and the timelines they'd already created over the previous two years said. Many think that NASA designed the lunar equipment and told the industry to build it. Again this is totally wrong. NASA told the Aerospace industry what they needed the craft to do (be a shirt sleeves environment capsule to transport the crew of three to lunar orbit and have a Lander capable of landing two of them on the lunar surface, then re-launch and dock back up with the capsule which would return home) and then simply chose the best ideas the industry provided. In fact there were several rounds where the best ideas were taken from one round, and then everyone got to redesign based on that idea. The entire industry was involved almost from step one, all NASA did was coordinate the efforts and train the crews, which is why they could never have hoaxed it. Quite simply, those with a real understanding of the times and what occurred know it happened as advertised because there is no way to have hoaxed it successfully the way Apollo was done. It's only those that are extremely ignorant of the real history that think it could have been hoaxed, and they seem only too willing to remain ignorant of the true history because it conflicts with their beliefs.

__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

If the July 20 date had been correct, and if there had been an Apollo hoax, Nixon could still have been prosecuted for Apollo 11. It was launched on July 16, 1969. Any hoax would have been planned and put in motion long before that.

That's in addition to the absurdity of the notion that Nixon alone was culpable for a hypothetical hoax, or that the pardon was targeted at anything other than Watergate and its aftermath. I would be shocked if this suggestion was made by anyone old enough to have been alive at the time of Apollo and Watergate.

__________________
Relight the Firefly!

"It is quite clear that Occam's razor does not sharpen in your pyramid." (Nicolas)

"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (Paul Simon)

Nixon could not hide a simple break and enter, you think he could hoax the moon landings.

__________________
If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

http://davidsuniverse.wordpress.com/

That was a brilliantly lucid and concise post, PW. Well done (even if you did mispell von Braun )!

__________________
"Transport of the mails, transport of the human voice, transport of flickering pictures - in this century, as in others, our highest accomplishments still have the single aim of bringing men together." St. Exupery

This misconception that Nixon was 'King of the Coverups' has always amused me ... surely if he was actually any good at it, then we would never have heard of Watergate.

If there actually is a 'King of Coverups' we are unlikely to know about it.

__________________
Dave

Anyone seen my marbles? Anyone ... ?

Great post, PW.

And let's not also forget that the F-1 engine made for the Saturn V got started in 1955, by Rocketdyne and the Air Force.

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

Not that I think there is anything to this - but wasn't Nixon Vice President under Eisenhower?

So he took a little time off and came back in 1969 to finish the job.

__________________
Spock Jenkins of the Vulcan Jenkins'.

Correct.

But that still doesn't prove a thing.

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

Of course it doesn't. The idea of a Nixon conspiracy related to Apollo is silly all by itself. However, saying Nixon couldn't have been involved because the direction of the program started under Eisenhower will only validate the conspiracy in the minds of many HB's.

__________________
Spock Jenkins of the Vulcan Jenkins'.

Another thing silly about this idea is, suppose that Eisenhower and Nixon did start some sort of conspiracy. It does not seem reasonable that Kennedy and Johnson would just continue it (disagreements between Democrats and Republicans was not invented within the last 5 years ). Similarly, if it started under Kennedy and Johnson, it doesn't make sense that Nixon would just allow it to continue - it would have been a great way to destroy his opposition!

And I'm not taking a political side on either side - I'm just commenting on the nature of the beast of politics.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

I am amazed that the hbers have not manetioned in here yet.

__________________
If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

http://davidsuniverse.wordpress.com/

Give it time: it'll be mentioned.

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

(CT Mode)The Democratic and Republican parties are controlled by the same Secret Masters (as are the Libratarian Party, the Green Party, the Tea Party, my Birthday Party, that rave that happened last weekend...(/CT Mode)

__________________
Carl Matherly

Offical Battlestar Galactica Apologist

Named Time Magazine's 2006 "Person of the Year"

I'd mention who I believe are the real controllers, but I've said their names ad nausuem already.

My masters....they fear the Doctor!

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

thats IT!
Tv is going off
you are BANNED from Doctor Who!

how about cds a have a doctor who song.

__________________
If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

http://davidsuniverse.wordpress.com/

and there are the books, and video tapes.

__________________
If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

http://davidsuniverse.wordpress.com/

The actual green light so to speak to land a man on the surface of the moon was proposed in 1967 with the actual test missions for Apollo that would lead up to a lunar landing. This would be when a conspiracy would have started if in fact it did. This is when they would have realized if they could actually do it. In politics, with the realization that they might not win the next election, they like to leave the incumbants with an impossible task. Democrats leave the Republicans with the task of Apollo. Now with their poll numbers dropping, the Republicans leaving the incumbants (Democrats?)with the monumental task of returning to the moon and not only that - landing a man on Mars.

NOOOO!!!!!!!

Wait! Ha ha! I have the DVDs! I cannot be stopped!

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

Ok I'm unclear, do you think there was a conspiracy that began in 1967 or are you just theorizing on "how they would have done it?"

__________________
I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

The return to the moon not speaking of landing on mars will not be finished during the next election period.

__________________
"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach 1830-1916
our animal welfare board and organisation

A deception on this scale would require a lot more lead time. A hoax would have to have been planned alongside the real missions in case of a no-go. That is the use of a lot of resources that someone would have detected. Even the deep pockets of 1960s NASA was watched closely enough to catch that kind of expendature.

Just my humble 2 cents.

__________________
"If they put me on a postage stamp tell them to use the young Bender"
--Bender

The actual green light so to speak to land a man on the surface of the moon was proposed in 1967 with the actual test missions for Apollo that would lead up to a lunar landing. This would be when a conspiracy would have started if in fact it did. This is when they would have realized if they could actually do it...

I'm still not sure how you come by 1967. The provision Apollo crews were done in 1965 (these changed due to several accidents.) Apollo 1's crew was named in March of 1966, whereas Apollo 8, the first to orbit the moon, was named in comparatively late, in August of 1968 only 4 months prior to launch. The Apollo 1 tragdey was on Jan 27th 1967 (40 years in 17 days) so Apollo was well an truely go pre-1967

__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Apollo program was go, but the missions leading up to actually putting a man on the moon were announced in Sept. 1967. The missions A-F leading up to mission type G which was the manned moon landing. Apollo 8 the second Apollo flight was a rush job to try to get a man on the moon. Given the go ahead for the fly by in mid August of 1968. Since the Soviets had already sent two capsules to the moon. One with turtles and a mannequin. Both had problems during reentry that would have killed an cosmonaut. Apollo 8 was given the go ahead. The redesigned command module hadn't been tested. Nobody had flown on the Saturn V. The control center and network wasn't ready. The fly control team wasn't ready and the crew only had three maybe four months to train versus the normal 1 year. And they had to reenter at 25000 m/hr. The fastest reentry up to that date. If there was an Apollo hoax maybe it started around this time period. 1967-1974.

Given the go ahead for the fly by in mid August of 1968. Since the Soviets had already sent two capsules to the moon. One with turtles and a mannequin. Both had problems during reentry that would have killed an cosmonaut.

Zond 6, I'll give you - the Russians had problems with their capsules springing leaks it seems, since they also lost a manned capsule that way. But what was wrong with Zond 5?

The redesigned command module hadn't been tested.

Except for Apollo 7, you mean?

Nobody had flown on the Saturn V.

True, but there's always a first time. It doesn't really matter whether you're planning to orbit the Earth for a few turns or take a trip to the Moon - the requirements for the booster are the same, and if it blows up, you're SOL regardless.

The control center and network wasn't ready.

It's actually easier to keep in communication with a craft in transit or orbiting the Moon than it is to keep track of something in LEO. All you need is three more or less equidistant ground stations, rather than the 10-odd ones necessary for Mercury (and those didn't provide full coverage anyhow).

As for the flight controllers, is there anything substantially different from an Apollo mission compared to a Gemini one?

...and the crew only had three maybe four months to train versus the normal 1 year.

Ah, yes. So only about 7 hours of training for each hour of the mission...

And they had to reenter at 25000 m/hr. The fastest reentry up to that date.

I fail to recall any probe that actually failed during reentry - Zond 6 failed to deploy parachutes, but that's a problem that applies only after the initial high velocity has been depleted. A manned probe is actually safer in this respect, since the crew can fire the parachute pyros manually if the automated systems should fail.

That said, Apollo 8 was highly successful but by no means flawless. Everything from pogo problems during launch, medical problems, accidentally erasing IMU data, and the rather undignified rest position... "stable 2", i.e. nose-down in the ocean. They were lucky it didn't take as long for the recovery teams to reach them as the A11 crew had to wait...

__________________
"We do not require reality to conform to the expectations of the ignorant"