In fact no. You're arguing the person, not the idea; that's the definition.

I will also note that I'm taking my meds, and my symptoms are not alleviated. Meds aren't foolproof, even for people who legitimately need them.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Actually, Ad Hominem can apply even if you're complimenting the individual. I.E., "Oh, she was far too busy to be able to see anything!"

Or, "He's way too intelligent to do research on this pithy thing! So therefore, his argument has no substance."

Personally, I think that Ad Hominem is used too loosely on the BAUT though. Ad Hominem doesn't necessarily cover every single insult there is, as some insults tend to stand on their own and not be part of any argument. I mean, I could still see your argument as solid and not argue it, and then still call you an arrogant, pus-streaming nerf-herder. Or something.

Of course, that still violates civility and decorum, but I wouldn't call it an Ad Hominem Fallacy, simply because as I'm making no argument, so I'm not really making any sort of fallacy.

__________________
There are few left who
Stare at the skies with wonder
Wishing to know more;
The clouds still drift by above
But the eyes below are blind.
--Laura Lundberg

Check out my writing, maybe.

Alright fine!

I hereby withdraw my statements made here and in the Matt Marriott thread. Matt is a fine, stable pillar of the BAUT community and the internet at large.

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In your rush to call everyone "entrenched" or closed-minded or "limited" you fail to note that the "limit" here has a very natural boundary: that point at which the evidence stops. - JayUtah

Science fiction was never meant to be an educational tool. - Editor Amazing Tales

Ewwww.

When the heck did I say you should lie?

I feel so dirty.

__________________
There are few left who
Stare at the skies with wonder
Wishing to know more;
The clouds still drift by above
But the eyes below are blind.
--Laura Lundberg

Check out my writing, maybe.

you meant e.g., not i.e.
e.g. is examplia gratia- (For Example- or to provide an example for clarity)
i.e. is id est - (In other words- or to phrase another way for clarity)

BigDon it counts as Ad Hom- not just to Matt- but perhaps to another person who IS on meds and may take offense.
Its no big deal (what you said- as i have seen many others make similar comments on different threads) - but, even still, EVERYONE must abide by the basic framework that makes BAUT what it is. So if the "rational" folks are forgiven transgressions that the "hb or ct" folks are not- they can cry foul play.

1. False. Example: current article specifies exact name of hoax.
2. False. Example: two mini-hydrogen bombs in WTC 9/11 script, see link in OP.


Hubble (space telescope) is a hoax too: correct.
Existence of Dinosaurs is a hoax too: false.
Continental drift is a hoax too: correct.

False. There were no mini-hydrogen bombs in the WTC. Any hydrogen bomb would have created vast amounts of radiation. So if you were correct, where was it?


False. it was definitely launched (there is video of it) and repaired (video of that too) and many astronomers use it every day.


False. There is plenty of evidence supporting this one. Earthquakes and volcanoes are definitely well supported with the continental drift/tectonic plate model. Movement of the plates has been confirmed with GPS readings.

__________________
"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

Well, I certainly stand corrected. Please go on Matt.

__________________
In your rush to call everyone "entrenched" or closed-minded or "limited" you fail to note that the "limit" here has a very natural boundary: that point at which the evidence stops. - JayUtah

Science fiction was never meant to be an educational tool. - Editor Amazing Tales

In the basement, again see link for details.

Hubble hoax: I don't care if it was lauched and repaired. Obviously I did not mean the Hubble telescope, I meant the product that the Hubble telescope sells, aka Astronomy Picture of the Day. The ONLY NASA hoax that still really sells.


I would leave my comment concerning the first statement to a thread exposing the tectonic plates/hot spots hoax.

The Continental drift hoax can be exposed in a similar way as the stellar parallax hoax, since both were "proved" by using the same mechanisms of the BIG LIE Framework.

I will let you first absorb the last sentence. More tomorrow.

You know, I actually saw Hubble being built, I'm pretty sure. I saw the Mars rovers being tested, too. Just one of the many advantages of growing up near enough to attend the JPL annual open house, huh?

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

BigDon- I'm walkin' over to your side of the fence.



<Quickly downs his dr pepper to refrain from using a long string of Ad Homs>

alrighty then (backs up and hopefully never comes back to this thread)

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

http://davidsuniverse.wordpress.com/

OK, Matt, since you are here may I politely ask you to clearly explain one of your theories to me?

How about the Hubble Hoax.

I followed the link from your GLP post about this, and all I got was a page talking about how one of the images released from Hubble was produced. Turns out it was constructed of smaller pieces put together, i.e. it wasn't originally one single picture captured at one time (though some may have mistakenly claimed it was).

Now, I could not figure out why that was a problem.

Maybe this fits somehow into the "big lie framework" I've seen you mention (here and elsewhere); but even then, that does not proove any kind of hoax.

So again, I would ask you to clearly explain why Hubble (or something about it or its' results) is a hoax.

If you use links, please use them to provide back-up to one of your statements; don't make your argument itself consist of just links to other places I need to go to understand what you are saying.

Thanks,

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( ok I am back against my better judgememt)
Most Hubble pictures on the picture of the day are a combination of number of other images taking through filters of different wavelengths. Then after that their colors are enhanced to make them more attractive to general public, alot of amateurs do this also with ccd cameras to their scopes.
The professional astronomers take use the raw images to get the data they need for their research. it is not a hoax or conspiracy it is just the way things are done.

__________________
If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

http://davidsuniverse.wordpress.com/

Paris Hilton says Marriott Hotels are a hoax.

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A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.

http://www.starterupsteve.com/seizurebots/

i'm sure this link will pretty much sum up the point that the OP is trying to make..
after this, here can be no argument..

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"blacker than the blackest black... times infinity."- Nathan Explosion
The.. Best.. Thread..Ever...

Okay, Matt.

Since my friends here on the forum have convinced me you are not "troubled" and that thinking otherwise is a bad thing, then I guess I should listen to you.

But don't listen to those others. They are not your friends. They don't really care about you, Matt Marriot, the person, the human being, with parents and brothers and sisters. Who went to grade school, Jr. High and High School. They just want to see you dance like a monkey for them, like children making fun of a hare-lip. You are just an internet shadow to them. No reality beyond phosphors and photons.

What do you think we should do about the murdering S.O.B.'s that actually conspired to do the 9-11 attacks? We have no choice but to act against them. To defend ourselves. By that I mean KILL them. Kill them dead. So they can't do this to us anymore. Hit them with major ordinance until until they are reduced to nothing but hair, teeth and eyeballs, maybe a lumbar vertibra or two. (The usual leftovers from a major strike)

We can figure out who did this... Every nuclear charge leaves radio-isotopes that are unque to the reactor that inriched them. If you can get some samples of ground zero dust or iron work we can send it in to a lab and they can identify the reactor where the plutonium was made.

After that it will be easy. Reactor techs are nerds with low pain threshholds, I'm not a reactor tech. Leave that part to me. Forget about waterboarding, a couple of loops of rawhide is all I need to get them singing like canaries. Saw that done in Africa. (Sometimes I still have dreams about it...) But after we find out the real names, what do we do then? What if this goes all the way to the Whitehouse? Have any ideas?

I'm listening intently.

Your kindly Uncle Don.

__________________
In your rush to call everyone "entrenched" or closed-minded or "limited" you fail to note that the "limit" here has a very natural boundary: that point at which the evidence stops. - JayUtah

Science fiction was never meant to be an educational tool. - Editor Amazing Tales

That's the funniest thing I have heard for a while. Stellar paralax and continental drift have nothing in common!


Without continental drift how do you explain:

1)The distribution of the Glossopertis flora to the five southern continents (including India)?

2) The presence of Permian ice cap glaciation in all the continents?

3) The provenance of glacial debris in Australia that came from Antarctica?

4) The Permian continental scale ice sheet flow directions in Tasmania that come in off the southern ocean?

5) Trassic sediments of Tasmania that also have a source somewhere in what is now the southern ocean?

6) The excellent fit between the coastlines of Australia and Antarctica (to name just on example)?

Jon

Hey, thinking otherwise is fine. It's just rude to say it.

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

So you think we built and launched a space telescope, but all the released data is faked? Wow! I'd be hard-pressed to think of dumber strategy for faking data. What exactly is the point? What does NASA gain? How are all the researchers who use the data fooled?

You do realize that not all images on APOD are from Hubble and that no money exchanges hands to view these image. What exactly is NASA selling? Do you think that the thousands of papers written by researchers using Hubble data have all been a hoax too?

The Theory of Continental Drift, or more accurately, the Theory of Plate Tectonics is well-established and measureable.

Stellar parallax is also well-established and measureable. The Hipparcos satellite measure stellar parallax for over 100,000 stars. Was this a hoax too? How did NASA convince the ESA to do this?

It appears you could benefit from a trip to the science section of your local library. It might help disabuse you of these notions.

__________________
"A mystic is a person who is puzzled before the obvious but who understands the nonexistent." -- Elbert Hubbard

I think I have the answer.

If you look at the measurements of stellar parallax, and draw points between where the star was on each frame, you end up with an inverted Star of David, clear evidence that the Freemasons are feeding this info into astronomers equipment, with their ancient knowledge passed down from Hyrum through the Templars.

On the 9/11 hoax. If you look at the airplanes, they have swept wings, ie; not straight out to either side. Each one of these planes forms the letter V if looked at top-down. Two planes hit the two towers. Two inverted letter V's is a letter "M", a clear sign the Freemasons were involved.

The most dangerous force in the Permian Extinction was methane. Methane begins with the letter "M", just like Masons, clearly indicating the Freemasons were responsible for the extinction.

Since the Illuminati are the body that controls the Masons, and by extension The World, the truth should be obvious.

__________________
"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

How do you invert a Star of David and notice the difference? Or should I just not ask?

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Hrm. I would say you pointed out a logical flaw, but I'll take the CT way out and accuse you of being a disinfo agent

__________________
"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Quantum physics.

__________________
There are few left who
Stare at the skies with wonder
Wishing to know more;
The clouds still drift by above
But the eyes below are blind.
--Laura Lundberg

Check out my writing, maybe.

The really hilarious thing about the Hubble images claim is that almost all of them (if not, in fact, all) can be reasonably reproduced by any amateur who has a large-enough scope, equatorial/computer-aided tracking, and a decent camera/CCD for time exposures. The only variables will be resolution, number of faint stars captured, and color depth, all qualitative rather than quantitative differences.

A good example is the open cluster M16, which has the famous Eagle Nebula (IC 4703) associated with it. Compare the Hubble images of what's been called "The Pillars of Creation" with this CCD image of the Eagle Nebula and M16 taken in California by Brad Wallis and Robert Provin using their 152mm f/7.5 Astro Physics EDF refractor. Here's Robert's webpage, showing him with a slightly larger scope (180mm versus 152mm).

I guess this means that besides JPL and NASA, thousands of amateur astronomers are in on the hoax, myself included, since I got a beautiful B&W shot of M16/Eagle Nebula back in 1964 using my 8" Newtonian reflector and a Rollieflex camera. I'd love to post that but it was one of many pictures and negatives, along with many other things, that disappeared around the time of the separation and the divorce.

So I can just see the thousands of us out there, never using our scopes or cameras, but instead spending time in the darkroom creating these fake photos that all just happen to match each other, and those from 100s of observatories worldwide, and images from the HST.

Right.

__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.

Didn't the BA use Hubble data in his SN1987A research? I would hate to think that Matt could possibily be saying that the BA would be involved in perpetrating a hoax.

Matt, it's time for you to stop with the handwaving and present your evidence for these various "hoaxes". If you cannot do that, then withdraw the claims that you have made.

__________________
"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

From your 'blog'

My son, who lives in Manhattan, watched a commercial jet flying low over the city at a high rate of speed shortly after the first tower was hit. He watched this plane slam into the second tower. Amazingly, it was just exactly the same as in the CNN video.

Now, my question to you. Are you calling him a liar?

I will refrain from posting again, because I like this discussion board and I want to stick around for a while and learn. Ridiculous assertions like this makes it difficult for me to stay within the rules.

__________________
Scienara: A rejection of reason and evidence.

About the only thing I see this thread being any good for is as an entrant in the "Thread With The Longest Title" contest.

Come to think of it, there is one other thing. It might take first in the "Thread With The Most Pretentious Title" contest.

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A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.

As this seems to have degenerated into a a 9 11 threread shouldn't it br cloded? o rmaybe 6 pints of Casledonian IPA have clouded m comprehension skills?

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NOt really- its still an astronomy thread. I don't think threads should so quickly and easily be Shut Down.

People reading these might really be interested in how "Matt" is going to explain his "stellar Parallax" Conspiracy. I know I would like to see him explain it.