On the radio right now, listen here:

http://923freefm.com/

No offense Phil, but you're not doing the best job hehe

Gus hung the lemon on a simulator because it wasn't kept up to date with the actual LM design.

... with the actual CM design.

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You can download the show from the radio show's web site:

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THANKS MUCH! I was bummed cuz i missed it

I wished that Joe would've shut up about Von Braun beign a Nazi. He stayed on that much longer than needed.

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- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

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The host keeps talking about how Calm and Humble Joe is- But he isn't.
Im listening and hes aggressive and Constantly interrupting. He hardly will Let Phil Answer his questions.
The host has no knowledge of strawman arguments does he?

ETA: Ok i just finished listening to the whole clip and over all im not happy with the Show hosts lack of conrtrol- nor with Joe Rogans aggressive and dishonest tactics. He keeps saying over and over that he doesnt KNOW either way if we went to the moon- but it "smells" funny to him. Yet his arguments are TOTALLY on the side of HB as well as he tells Phil Several times that Phil didnt convince him ( as if he is ALREADY convinced that its a hoax)
None of his arguments are based on PROOF but rather to CAST DOUBT.
He liked to lead arguments up several trees at one time. Never allowing ANY of them at any point to be answered.
He brought up several points that either dont really Tie in- or have no proof either way- it just CAN if interpretted as such- CAST DOUBT. e.g. why did Van Braun go to Antarctica to collect Rocks? its WEIRD he says. It doesnt seem weird to me AT ALL> NASA needed to try to figure out WHAT conditions the astronauts would be facing up there.

Joe acted so "Full of sincerety" but im not buying it. At all.
He said things like "well i dont know" about a LOT of his "anamolies" that he COULD KNOW about if he did a little research. A sincere person would RESEARCH before trying to argue the case that he argued. He admits he doesnt research it. and that he doesnt know. He is well aware of Bad Astronomy dot com and at ANY time could browse the site and get the answers to his questions- but he doesnt seem to have answers to them...
I think hes having fun.

Joe Rogan speant WAY too much talking about Von Braun being a Nazi. Plus he really drove me crazy by not letting Phil get a word in the conversation in the beginning (I'm a big BA fan ). He keeps talking each time Phil tries to say something, he just cuts him off.

I like the point that Phil makes about the fact that the Bill Clinton and Monica thing couldn't be kept secret. How could NASA keep a moon landing hoax secret?

I have the feeling that these arguments will just go in circles. I don't see Joe Rogan changing his opinion any time soon on the moon landing.

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Joe Rogan said that there are photos and videos of Wernher von Braun in Antarctica collecting several hundred pounds of rocks and such documentation is widely available. Is there such documentation?

Is there such documentation?

Of course not.

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Clavius Moon Base

It makes no snese that the believers of the landing need to prove it.

Yet if Joe Rogan wants to claim that he was there collecting hundreds of pounds of rocks (which he says is SO WEIRD) than Rogan needs to prove it and provide the evidence.

By claiming he is just struck by the fact it is weird he is making no statement worth paying attention to- he must back up his claim.

Sadly, it is far more likely that it will be the debunkers who research and provide the actual proof- that the HB's will either turn around and deny- or ignore completely as if nothing happened.

Joe kept saying "Moon rocks from Antarctica"...they were rocks, not even sure what they were at the time. And I know they didn't have the dust coating that all the Lunar samples has, were melted from reentry, lacked the zap pits, etc.
The Nazi thing was stupid, they just hired the best rocket engineer they could find. The Soviets did the same thing. Should we have just not grabbed him when he surrendered, seeing full well the future intentions of the Soviets?
Joe went on in some detail about the compartmentalized nature of NASA, then very shortly thereafter said "I don't understand how the program works". Which is it, can't have both. He doesn't seem to understand the idea of subcontractors.
The lemon on the LM thing was, well, botched.
The communications/data training satellite, Joe's just parroting a HB thing there.
Compartmentalization...a lot of folks need to know and understand how their piece interfaces with the whole system...not all maybe, but very many.
Not back to the Moon...just look at the TV ratings of the later missions...folks lost interest, and won't pay billions to keep going.

Radio shows like this aren't the best place to try to debate the whole of the hoax theory...maybe just a piece of it, but the whole smash is just too much to encompass.

Joe kept saying "Moon rocks from Antarctica"...they were rocks, not even sure what they were at the time.

Did von Braun bring back rocks?

I was wondering how the conspiracist myth that von Braun was sent to Antactica to collect hundreds of pounds of moon rocks evolved into what it is today.

Did von Braun bring back rocks?

Not that I know of.

I was wondering how the conspiracist myth that von Braun was sent to Antactica to collect hundreds of pounds of moon rocks evolved into what it is today.

They found out that he went to Antarctica for a holiday in 1968, and since today we know that it is a good place to locate meteorites, as well as being the site of the first known lunarites, they put 2 and 2 together and come up with 15. funnily enough the best sopurce of lunarites seems to be Tunisa (due to it's desert conditions they stand out) but no one suggests that the moonrock came from there.

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Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

The whole 'Von Braun in Antactica to collect moon rocks' is one of the most bizarre of all of the HB claims (and that is really saying something!).

Let's look at the logic here. You need a whole lot of meteorites because you are going to fake a lunar landing (beg your pardon, 6 lunar landings) and you need to be able to supply expectant geologists with output. Nearly a tonne of it, because if you're going to start a conspiracy, you may as well go the whole 10 yards.

Now, rather than come up with a reasonably plausible cover story as to why you can't supply them (fear of unidentifiable, possibly biological. contaminants; radiation levels too high to safely transport back to Earth in the CM with the crew, etc, etc), they send THE most identifiable face associated with the entire space programme to Antarctica to collect rocks (which even if they ARE lunar in origin, are going to have difficult-to-explain weathering and evidence of atmospheric entry) ... hey, and why not then take a whole bunch of holiday snapshots to commemorate the subterfuge? Oh, and will we send a geologist [say, Jack Schmitt who must already be in on the big secret], who may actually know a lunar rock from a lump of sandstone? No, tell you what, let's send a rocket engineer! I mean, they're all scientists, right???

Stupid, stupid, stupid people!!

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Well Von Braun did work for the nazis but he probably figured he was using them as much of them using him kind of situation. It was a way to fund his research into rockets, during thye cold war scientists used goverments on both sides to fund their research. I heard stories of one scientist using getting funding for a blockhole bomb just to get funding into blackholes, and another coming up with the idea of antimatter fighter to get funding into antimatter.

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My usual response to "Von Braun was a Nazi" is "So was Oskar Schindler"

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Do not think you had much choice of which political party yopu were a member of then in Germany.

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You know, I admire Phil's stamina and enthusiasm when debating these people but really, he's wasting his time with the likes of Joe Rogan. He's just another celebrity du jour ready to stand up and show the world he's not scared to be dumb. In my opinion, expend as much time and energy as is required to defend science and the truth in schools and general education and let lost causes like Rogan waffle on until the public are sick of him (and that WILL happen). Joe Rogan's opinions have about as much weight in real life as those of Tom Cruise.

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The thing with actors is people listen to them more the scientist, maybe someday there will be a scientific tonight.

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Oh yeah. Imagine Werner's future as a human and husband/family man had he refused to join the party, wear whatever uniform they considered appropriate for him and his position, refusing to build rockets to attack the Island. He spent time in jail for far less. They killed dissidents, and their families. We have no idea. I wasn't there. Neither were you.
Only he knows the personal demons he faced in later years, knowing all that was learned later, by him and us. I will never, I hope, have to walk in his shoes. This guilt by association is wrong...so few who raise it have any idea of the situation of those days. It's so easy to throw rocks, having never lived under very visible supervision of the SS and Hitler as he did.
The man was a rocket scientist at heart, and the leading countries of the world knew damn well what that meant, and made what, in retrospect, may have been "uncomfortable" decisions (for the US at least, no comment on the Soviet side). The Soviets found their scientists. When a man of Von Braun's stature in rocketry seeks the Allies out for surrender, what should they have done? Same with their nuclear scientists who fled. How would the future (our present) have changed? Oh, Werner should have fled? Are you him?
Hindsight is 20/20, but, in the decades following, I think that turning Von Braun's V-2 development into the triumph of the Saturn and Apollo program (and the numerous interim steps) needs to at least be considered as a turn for the better. American political sensitivities (using a MRBM) prevented the earlier employment of the Jupiter/Redstone for the first US satellite, what matters a political loss in the name of....what? Symbolism? There was a buidup going on.
We can read about Facism, and the Nazi regime, but we were not there, I suspect none of us were. I see it as a grossly overused and desperate argument. It has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of Apollo, just an attempt to fling mud when all else has failed.
Joe really beat on it. Why would that be? Maybe the impact of the word? I find such tactics cheap and cowardly. Especially on what seems a comedic toned radio show. You don't fling such words so hapahzardly, it cheapens what those days in Germany and their occupied countries really meant.
It numbs us to the real meaning. Just quit that crap, Joe, et al.
I've edited this numerous times, let me know if I'm out of line.
Another rant done.
Dave

DaveJ, my point was that at the time you had to member of that perty or they could all kinds of things to you and so to survive alot of people became members just to survive.

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Cant be. Joe Rogan made it quite clear that he was an EVIL bad horrible man.

I guess it must be so if Joe says so maybe we can get a second thought on it by Andy Dick.

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Yes...exactly, sorry if I wasn't clear there. He was a man the party needed in their court very badly. The Hitler machine was a techological monster, intent notwithstanding. He had the "skilz" to use the current term.

After the the Americans him needed him and if he did not go with the Americans the Russians would take him, I would states ove Stalins Russia anyday.

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And also bringing the fact he was nazi has nothing to do with a man on the moon it is just something to distract people with.

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I wonder what would have happened after his release from the gulags, if Korolev had defected to the USA. Imagine what they could have achieved had he been working in partnership with von Braun and with the budget that NASA provided at the time.

I know in this scenario that the competition that really drove the Space Race would be missing, but it's interesting to wonder where we could be now if those two had worked together...

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

It would be interesting things could of developed a lot faster, plus it depends if the two of them would get along with each other.

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Rogan's arguments are no different from those on any HB site. His "willingness" to learn the "truth" is belayed by his constant interruptions...also typical of HB's.

His "investigation" is limited to HB sites.

Other than his being Joe Rogan, is there any reason to pay the least bit of attention to him??

He brings nothing new to the table.

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