is the Netherlands intend on grabbing the Mars, Nicolas?

The thing that is hard to believe about the Apollo program is that it was so successful. In the intervening years we have managed to kill at least 14 astronauts, plus whatever the Russians and Chinese did. I forget which crew got the first ride an a Saturn, but I remember the description, by the mission commander, of the capsule whipping around during launching is truly frightening, not the least because it was unexpected. The whole business was at the top of an enormous liquid fuel rocket. Von Braun and his team were fortunate to never lose one at launch. There have to be people out there who worked on the Saturns: sea stories, anyone?

It's an unfair comparison. Compare the number of Astronauts who flew during the time of Mercury/Gemini/Apollo, to the number of Astronauts who have flown since the 1st Shuttle flight in 1981.

Or look at it this way....

Apollo 1 lost it's crew, and Apollo 13 was almost lost. That would have been 2 lost flights. The Shuttle program has lost 2 flights, with the number of Astronauts being 7 on each flight. Again, an unfair comparison.

Or simply look at the number of flights total...

I know the missions and the names of the Astronauts who flew on each Mercury/Gemini/Apollo flight, but with the Shuttle I lost track after about the 10th flight back in the 80's.

There's so much evidence that validates Apollo that successfully casting doubt on any one piece of that evidence would have precisely zero effect on the overall theory: Apollo happened.

Even a deathbed confession wouldn't, on its own, be enough at this point. There's just too much independent evidence to counter.

It also helps that every piece of counter-"evidence" I've seen thus far has turned out to be some combination of ignorance (great or small) of the physical world, demonstrable falsehood, outright libel, and/or best left to the realm of psychiatry. Each argument almost self-impeaching.

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Listen close to everybody's heart________And you believe there's good in everybody's heart
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And crashing to the ground_______________To turn a life around

Apollo 7.

Wally Shirra's voiced concern immediately prior to launch was the winds. They were just under the mission rule (that he'd insisted upon.) Shirra's concern was that the couches they were strapped into weren't designed to withstand a land-landing (the good couches weren't ready in time for Apollo 7), and would perform very badly in the wrong conditions.

The conditions were indeed wrong. The winds immediately prior to launch were in the wrong direction, and almost strong enough to pull the CM back to shore were they to have to abort early in the launch.

Wally couldn't see the weather data, but he could feel the wind rocking the CSM about. It wouldn't surprise me that the lack of an objective reference point made it feel like a small hurricane out there.

Well, he took the CAPCOM's word for it that the winds were adverse but still within the mission rule.

__________________
[Dr. Horrible]___________________________[Penny]
Listen close to everybody's heart________And you believe there's good in everybody's heart
And hear that breaking sound_____________Keep it safe and sound
Hopes and dreams are shattering apart____With hope you can do your part
And crashing to the ground_______________To turn a life around

Echoed. Well put.

__________________
[Dr. Horrible]___________________________[Penny]
Listen close to everybody's heart________And you believe there's good in everybody's heart
And hear that breaking sound_____________Keep it safe and sound
Hopes and dreams are shattering apart____With hope you can do your part
And crashing to the ground_______________To turn a life around

The crew atop a Saturn V were some 200 feet away from the vehicle's center of mass. So when the vehicle steered to account for wind drift, that translated into substantial lateral movement in the CSM. Pitch and yaw corrections would have seemed like quite a lot of bobbing and weaving.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

What we intend on doing, is beyond your wildest imagination .

No, it's just a quite large aerospace faculty. I don't know how many aerospace students there are exaclty, but 800 seems more than realistic as there are about 300 newcomers every year.

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

there might have been involved some resonant oscillations in the liquid propellant feedlines of the central engine (as in the doomed apollo 13 mission) also...............just your usual cover up here ....(not worth of special mention)

I don't think the lay outs of the main thrusters experienced much change up to apollo 13. They were simply riding the thing on an edge. The hero status has to be earned after all!

There is quite a difference between a cover up and bing not worth of special mention. What did you mean?

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What are you on about?

The whipping around mentioned by John Mendenhall implies lateral movement. Pogo oscillations you're talking about were longitudinal. I might have misunderstood you, but if you're accusing someone here of cover ups, you're stepping over the boundaries of civil decorum. If you're not, I apologize.

Nicolas and JMV,

didn't I come across as knowledgable?

Well it was some ex tempore kind of ..........Hoax
(really I can't hear that word any more recently)






ah, yes.......when i have to, i will humbly apologize...... (i mean ernestly)

I can't follow. At all.

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Might be a language thing...

I didn't demand you to apologize. I meant, if I really did misunderstand you, I apologize for painting you as a villain.

And honestly, your reply didn't make your postion any clearer to me.

What cover up? Are you suggesting that the pogo problem was not acknowledged by NASA?

Huh? Are you suggesting that NASA didn't address the pogo problem until after Apollo 13? If so, you are way off base.

Are you suggesting that NASA allowed a known problem to go unaddressed in order to maintain some mythical hero status?

Would you please clarify what you are getting at?

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"A mystic is a person who is puzzled before the obvious but who understands the nonexistent." -- Elbert Hubbard

ok, I see: I really have to apologize now!
it wasn't my intention, but i obviously caused more of a fuddle than intended!
I mean, i constructed this post from................scrap! Slight of Hand, Leger de Main, Devil Do, Imp Work,...............you name it!
As i said, I followed a whim (spring inspired?) and made up a superficialy convincing cover up from nothing but rarified air.
The impressing sounding (to me) passage about the "propellant feedlines" I simply pasted from a recent thread, in which Nicolas shone as especialy well informed and knowledgable! I was sure that he would have a deja vue and may be a laugh! So the whole thing was intended as something rather innocent.

but the question concerning the central engine is interresting anyway..........why didn't the oscillations show in the previous flights........might there really have been some sweeping under the carpet going on here?

Oh? I took your wording to be something it wasn't. I am sorry.

You can read about the pogo problem here:
Especially this passage is of interest:

Pogo showed up in all rocket flights. It was managable at all times, but more serious in early Apollo flights. As Apollo progressed, they found new ways of reducing it.

NASA never covered it up. It simply wasn't that big an issue. It was an engineering problem. They had engineers. The engineers solved it. Why make a big fuss about it?

__________________
[Dr. Horrible]___________________________[Penny]
Listen close to everybody's heart________And you believe there's good in everybody's heart
And hear that breaking sound_____________Keep it safe and sound
Hopes and dreams are shattering apart____With hope you can do your part
And crashing to the ground_______________To turn a life around

I just made a joke about senile posters, but now I can't remember writing anything about fuel lines and pogoing myself

But I understand the context of your post now .

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.