This footage is pretty convincing. Anyone care to debunk it?

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Mine: "Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that."

Heinlein's: "Staying young requires the unceasing cultivation of the ability to unlearn old falsehoods." "Freedom begins when you tell Ms. Grundy to go fly a kite."

Ha, ha....that's a good one. I know I'm convinced.

I gave it two viewings. I won't get into the design of the thing (all those windows?) but just stick with the wobbly motion as it "flys" and rotates, more consistent with the motion of an object suspended by a string/wire than a self-propelled interstellar vehicle.

Thanks for the chuckles.

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That one debunks itself

Thanks for the laugh. That was hilarious hehe. YouTube. If it's there, it must be real!

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"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

At several times, especially around 0:24, flashes consistent with wire glints can be seen above the allegedly flying object.

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BTW mugaliens, are you planning to go back to the FLIR thread and acknowledge that you were wrong and apologise to Jay?

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Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

That's fake but this one is real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4cjP...elated&search=

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This is not an idea to be tossed aside lightly - it should be thrown with great force

At several times, especially around 0:24, flashes consistent with wire glints can be seen above the allegedly flying object.

Maybe it's a PLSS antenna.

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"When your statics problem becomes a dynamics problem, you're in trouble." --me

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That's fake but this one is real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4cjP...elated&search=

Haha--good one, Occam--maybe you should ask Richard Hoagwash to comment.

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--Doug

"When your statics problem becomes a dynamics problem, you're in trouble." --me

Moor's Law: "As you go from freshman engineering to Ph.D., the amount of work required per credit hour doubles approximately every 18 months." --me, inspired by Prof. Scott Moor

I think you are mistaken about that. I see a whitish vertical line
above the object around the time you say, but it is a feature on
the hillside, clearly visible in frames where the object is in other
positions. The object starts out and ends up much too far from
the camera to be suspended from wires.

My questions are:

Why do I only see about one frame per second? Is the Flash
player dropping frames in order to keep up with real time, or does
the video on YouTube only contain about one frame per second?

Why does the image jump around so much from one frame to the
next? Even if I'm only seeing every 30th frame, the camera seems
to bounce around like the camera operator is on a paint can shaker.

Why do none of the media players I've ever had allow me to step
through a video a frame at a time?

Why do none of the the media players I've ever had (except the
very first MPEG player) allow me to adjust the frame rate?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

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Here is a much better version of it, much more clear.

I´ve seen this video some time ago. It´s CGI for me. In the initial sequence, when the "object" aproacches, it kinds of "zoom in" (it´s like an "artificial" aproachment, note that the image of the object aproaching doesnt change...doesnt rotate, doesnt change lighting...just like it "zooms".

Sorry for my english.

Wow, once again Jay is spot on. At the 24 second mark you *can* see wire glints. Pause it at 24 seconds and they are embarrassingly obvious.

Anybody besides me think "Youtube" should be renamed "Youboob"?

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"The beauty of that discussion of averages is that you don't have to be an expert in Apollo or in photography in order to see where this time study "analysis" breaks down. You just have to be, well...not an idiot." -JayUtah

I don't see the flashes in the version Orion437 posted. In the one first posted, the flashes are consistent with wire glints, but I haven't undertaken any analysis to test whether that's the most likely cause. Since the frame moves rapidly left and right during that period, a certain specific type of digital motion picture encoding error is also possible.

A CG influence is also indicated by the final seconds when the object appears to zoom away at high speed.

The motion of the object at :20 to :30 suggests pendulum motion from a suspension mechanism that would be more difficult to achieve in computer animation.

Oddly enough, I've been to Lecce, Italy, where this was allegedly filmed, but I don't recognize the setting.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
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It looks like some kind or RC model to me

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'The eye can only see what the mind is prepared to accept'

In Orion's version, if you can pause it at exactly 24 seconds, you can see three wires, on both sides and in the rear. BUT I will also consider Jay's statement about digital encoding errors, a subject I am most ignorant of, by my own admittance.

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"The beauty of that discussion of averages is that you don't have to be an expert in Apollo or in photography in order to see where this time study "analysis" breaks down. You just have to be, well...not an idiot." -JayUtah

The title I also find strange. Italian Airforce Video? Does the Italian Airforce often hang out in cattail marshs beside rivers?

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"The beauty of that discussion of averages is that you don't have to be an expert in Apollo or in photography in order to see where this time study "analysis" breaks down. You just have to be, well...not an idiot." -JayUtah

I find it amazing, and I'm convinced, that skeptics and debunkers get it right every time.

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In Orion's version, if you can pause it at exactly 24 seconds...

I still can't see it in the other version, but that's what I get for trying to draw any conclusion from any crappy-quality YouTube video. I'll take your word for it that you can see them there too.

BUT I will also consider Jay's statement about digital encoding errors, a subject I am most ignorant of, by my own admittance.

When the camera rotates between frames, the major digital motion picture encoding schemes are smart enough just to move the appropriate zones from the previous frame to their new spot in the frame buffer instead of recompressing them from scratch. When doing this on the fly at low quality settings, they don't always line up, creating single-frame glitches when the zone moves a long distance between frames. Those single-frame glitches can leave little white "cracks" in the image, or noticeable discontinuities.

It would take some significant effort to study whether the data supports the wire theory or the motion-glitch theory better. And better video.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Laugh if you will, but when was the last time that Italy was bombed by a surprise air attack from a swamp, huh? Hence the Italian Air Force's (Swamp Arm) motto: Veni, vedi, ho ucciso le zanzare per un'ora (or "I came, I saw, I swatted mosquitos for an hour")

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

I can't see the video (dial-up at home, no YouTube at work), but the comment of the poster mentions Aviano, which is where the American base is, and at the opposite side of the Stivale.


Oh my, I get to play an Italian Gillianren:
The grammatically correct version would be: Venni, vidi, ho ucciso zanzare per un'ora.

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The motion of the object at :20 to :30 suggests pendulum motion from a suspension mechanism that would be more difficult to achieve in computer animation.
I don't know about that. It's quite easy to create pendulum motion. All you do is move the object's axis to what would be the pendulum's axis and revolve around that. (i.e., the "center of mass" doesn't exist in CG, it can be made to be anywhere you want it to be). And most programs today have automatic keyframeing which adjusts motion based on linear curves, and can easily reproduce a swinging or pendulum effect.

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