Yeah I knew what you meant. I was making a joke. Im sure rovers cant chuck stuff...
Your point is an excellent one.
The trouble with it is that the only people that are very good at going through massive amounts of extraterrestrial photographs with intent to find one thing....
always end up finding tracked vehicles, alien skulls,signs of hyperdimensional physics and cairns.

oh.. and puddles of water and plants, moss, mold and lichen.

oh yeah. Also, let's not forget the little white bunny ( and I mean LITTLE) that the rover ran over. (moment of silence)

I'm just guessing... if a rover had driven through something similar to the cited "proof" the reaction would just be:

Well, that was clearly dust. This image is clearly of water. Look at it!

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I don’t know. Does the rover have its Muddin’ tires on? Perhaps if it did run through a wet area, it would get stuck in the mud.

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Reality: What a concept!……………………..><Ç(((Ç°>

When they have got close to what looks like a damp area it does make for some interesting visual impresions.

The official word is dust.

From sol 570


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2273L4M1.HTML

False color for those that like em

http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/570...L4L5L5L5L6.jpg

When they have got close to what looks like a damp area...

What is your evidence for the area being damp?

...it does make for some interesting visual impresions.

Is moisture required in order for a particulate to be impressible?

The official word is dust.

And that's scientifically wrong because...?

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The post was to demonstrate the change in the characteristics of the impression. The conversation in the thread had questioned if there was any such images. You had to know I would have them. Just showing the areas in question

To answer your questions

All speculation and opinion.

Dfrank

going by those images the Lunar Rovers went through wet sand! Do you have anything other than 'look at the picture' ?

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I believe those would be, "Fines," or dust. That would be the same official process on Mars.

The only thing I have is pictures. I have lots of them. I believe someone ask for images like this. pzkpfw I believe

If any one would like more images just ask.

Dfrank

The post was to demonstrate the change in the characteristics of the impression.

...which you attributed to moisture.

Do you intend these pictures to support your overall contention that NASA is deliberately ignoring evidence of liquid water on Mars?

All speculation and opinion.

Do you expect anyone to take them seriously?

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The only thing I have is pictures. I have lots of them.

And you also have a prejudicial claim against NASA that accuses them of hiding or avoiding evidence of liquid water on Mars. Do you intend your interpretation of these pictures to be evidence of that claim?

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Dfrank suspended 21 days for 2nd failure to answer direct and pertinent questions posed to him, and for failure to heed moderator warning. Failure again to answer questions upon returning as required per:

NASA the CONSPIRACY generator

"Furthermore, Dfrank's next post, upon returning, will not be more nonsensical machismo, it will be the direct answer I tasked him with giving, or there will be an immediate, and longer suspension."

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Hello gentlemen. Over the next few days I will be going back over the thread to make sure I have responded to all the questions. I have been in contact with the moderator and he is aware of this.

dfrank

Thanks, Dfrank. Welcome back!

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Verified in a very cordial exchange with Dfrank.

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

This is my image with points

Scientific analysis of image I claim to be a mars anomaly because of the presents of water /H2O in various phases, not acknowledged by NASA. This is per instructions from moderation.

Visual interpretation:

I. This gives the impression of pooling in the lowest area of trof. This medium shows all the visible characteristics of pooling with a seemingly flat surface and shore line. The darker color of the medium on the right and lighter shoreline on the left give the impression of liquid water in the process of phase change from liquid to solid when compared to area ll


II. This is another area of pooling but seems to be older. It gives the visible signature of ice having gone through a freeze thaw cycle due to the bright color. This would indicate expansion during the thaw cycle and atmospheric gas release in the ice.

III. This area shows a difference of surface albedo consistent with wicking from
moisture in the low lying areas of the trof closest to the moisture source.

IV. This is an area in the micro-dune field I will use as a comparison. The visible
data would suggest that the micro-dunes are in reality water ice, deposited
on the surface as precipitants and take on this appearance due to wind. Note
semi-transparency

V. This shows the disintegration of the micro-dune. This is consistent with phase
Change of water ice to liquid state. Not only do we have change of micro dune
characteristics but we also have change in surface albedo consistent with the
liquid state

VI. Another example of change in surface albedo consistent with moisture in
Lower areas associated with wicking.

VII. This is another example of the absence of the micro-dunes in the wicked areas
This again is consistent with phase change of H2O from solid to liquid state.

VIII. This is an example of the micro-dunes that are not influenced buy the change
surface albedo. This is visible proof of the correlation of micro-dune disintegration and change of surface albedo.

IX. This is the holly grail. We have semi- transparency of the micro-dunes. We
Have change of the micro-dune characteristics next to the change in surface of albedo. This is again consistent with phase change of H2O ice to liquid and associated surface albedo change.

question 2 to follow in the next few days

What is a "trof"?

presence*

Are you saying that the dunes are comprised of ice or snow and not sand?
Through-out you mention phase changes from:
Liquid to solid
Solid to liquid
Liquid to gas.
All in the same area- can you give a time frame for each phase change?
That is; One would assume that a phase change between liquid to solid would occur during cooling.
A change from solid to liquid during warming.
Is this occuring all at once? Or over a time period that has left the mark of these events, not the actual presence of water?

Also, are you accounting for Martian tempurature and atmospheric pressure at this location for those time periods?

Trof is a meteorological term. Trof is a valley, ridge is a hill. This is from atmospheric surface analysis. Please hold questions until I finish.

Dfrank

semi transparency? I don't see it?

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Maybe you would if it was Semi-Translucent

In reference to water on Mars I provide the following link.

http://mars.spherix.com/spie2/spie98.htm

For those who can not see what I see there is nothing I can do. We all have our areas that we understand.

dfrank

If your eyes can not see the surface material beneath the micro-dunes there is nothing I can do.

dfrank

Same here, and a reminder that this is a false color image. See 01101001's previous post on this:

NASA the CONSPIRACY generator

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Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

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Van,

I challenge anyone for a, "True color," image. No human has ben there.

respectfully,
dfrank

This is by Gilbert and Ron Levin. Ron Levin recently had to retract a "look at the picture" argument for liquid water which turned out to be on a steep cliff. He used false color images as well.

What is your professional expertise in this area that would allow you to make an accurate image interpretation?

We're right back at the same point we were when you took your little sabbatical. You're still making a "look at the picture" argument, but you haven't provided any supporting evidence.

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Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

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Van,

You are correct. We are looking at the visible data. I gave my interpretation. I would hope that someone could take my analysis and pick it apart. I would hope that we would not categorize it all. I am here to respond to my analysis I guess

Respectfully
dfrank

No, "trough" is a meteorological term.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Are you saying that the "true" color is blue?

I'm sure I linked to this before, but here again is some information on determining color in Mars images:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc...rs_colors.html

http://www.atsnn.com/marscolors.html

which gets into how images are calibrated and combined.

Short version: You can get very near what a human would see (just as you can with a camera). Any way you cut it, it isn't blue.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser