Van.,

I am saying that no man can say what the true colors are of Mars. As I understand it a human must be there to verify. I may be wrong. Maybe you have the answer.

Respectfully,
dfrank

Did you read the linked articles? We can get very close to what the eye would see, and it doesn't allow for blue ground.

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The Leif Ericson Cruiser

We've been through this already. The last time you were here, it was pointed out that you have provided no supporting evidence for your interpretation of the false color image, and you were asked various questions related to that evidence. A number of those questions are still on the table, but I'm not looking them up for you.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

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The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Gill,

I did a lot of surface analysis in my time. We put trof on the surface analysis. That was just 1979 to 1986. Don’t go there man. I was there.

Respectfully
dfrank

Dfrank,
Saying "If you don't see it then I guess all is lost" is totally not the point.
Use words and scientific analysis to GUIDE us so that we can "see" it.
In so doing we can take apart detail by detail to determine what it is that we are really seeing.

Van,

I have provided an image and my scientific analysis. If you can debunk it do it. Don’t blow smoke.

Respectfully
dfrank

You made the claim- You must provide evidence.
Don't throw something at anothers feet and say "Go to it"
Do some work.
Show the science.

It's all too easy to debunk it by saying, "You see water and I don't."

I'll take a shot at the photo.
What you say is a puddle (figure I) looks to me like lighter (weight- not color) dust blown through that little valley and pushing up against the slope against the dune at the far side.
A puddle of water would be level- not raised up against the slope. Unless Opportunity was at a precarious angle and that slope isn't as sloped as it looks.

The "ice" is sand. Regular, normal sanddunes.

Neverfly,

We all have talents I guess. I can not help people see no more than I can help me with the English language. Without spell check we could not talk. What can I do?

Respectfully
dfrank

Use science to explain what the eyes may be decieved by.

We've been through this. You have "provided" a false color image and said "this looks like such and so to me." That is hardly a scientific analysis. It has been repeatedly pointed out that your visual interpretation without supporting evidence is useless. You haven't shown that the conditions were correct for water at that location, or that your interpretation was either reasonable or the only possibility that would fit the image. There's nothing to debunk!

That's why you had questions, such as Serenitude's, in this post:

NASA the CONSPIRACY generator

which you still don't seem to have answered. Either you have evidence, or you don't. Your speculation on an image isn't evidence.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

That reminds me of the old Ted Giesel ("Dr. Seuss") essay who's title said it all:
"The Tough Coughs as he Ploughs Through the Dough".

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"Transport of the mails, transport of the human voice, transport of flickering pictures - in this century, as in others, our highest accomplishments still have the single aim of bringing men together." St. Exupery

I asked a series of questions earlier.
You asked me to wait on my questions.
Since you are now not putting anything new to the table- Is THIS the time for you to answer them?

To all,

I gave my analysis. I would hope you could debunk my interpretation. I really don’t want to here it looks like. You have my narrative and thought. Let us be men. Attack my reasoning.

Respectfully
dfrank

You KINDA gotta put forth some reasoning to attack...

Explain Wicking. Answer the previous questions from my previous post. The one which right after you asked me to wait. I'm still waiting.

Done. See my previous post:

NASA the CONSPIRACY generator

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Dfrank,
Van Rijns response to your two posts:
NASA the CONSPIRACY generator
My (rather unintelligent) questions are here:
NASA the CONSPIRACY generator

Van,

If our eyes are useless, what do we have?

dfrank

<Ninja edit: Dfrank - we have a rule against revisionism, ESPECIALLY once you've been quoted and/or responded to. Post restored ~ Serenitude>

What is your expertise and experience in interpreting False Colour images of Mars?
What is your basis for comparison? I have eyes but I don't see any liquid in the photo? persuade me that it's there.

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Our brains for one...
Scientific measurements.
Analysis.
Understanding of physical principles...
Actually this can turn into quite a long list...

Okay, here's some reasoning.

First and foremost, this is a false color image.
It seems you do not understand what that means.

It means that different filters for different wavelengths are used in taking an image. Then, when processed, colors are assigned to these channels. We get an image that is not how it really looks, but rather a representation of different chemicals that are present. Look at false color images of Saturn. You'll see that they show the planet as mostly white, with multicolored stripes. Same for Jupiter false color iamges.

Natural color is obtainable by simply using green, red, and blue filters (maybe others). They are combined to show the images most like what the human eye would see. The technical term, IIRC, is simulated natural color.
Such images are rather bland, and so that's why scientists pick different wavelengths that bring out certain features of soils, clouds, ect.

In this case, we see how the soil is varied in it's contents.

Also understand that blue doesn't automatically mean water.

And let it be known that standing water in a situation like this doesn't look blue. You can test this yourself by pouring a bucket of water on some dry dirt. You'll see that it mearly darkens the soil. It won't look blue.

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Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

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"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

I'm not sure if Dfrank ever told us the source of this image. It occurs to me that this may not even be a proper false color image (where colors are used to convey useful information) but might just simply be a colorized image (where it was colored blue on a whim). Dfrank, what was the source of this image, and the technical parameters for the color selection?

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

In Dfranks defense...
He doesn't seem to be basing his assumption on the color so much as on the texture and the wicking.
In his post following the Image, he addresses several parts of the image and then describes what we are looking at in each one.
Can we break down each of those segments and explain what exactly we are seeing on each one?

What is wicking?
What does wicking look like?

PLUS my questions previously asked about the time frame. It may make a difference in whether or not we see water- or water marks in Dfranks argument.
Please address these Dfrank.

Is it even Mars? it looks like the Beach at Whitby

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Serinitude,

When we are looking at an image, visual data, our eyes are science, no.

dfrank

To all,

Wicking is what it sound like. moisture runs up. like in a lamp

dfrank

Eyes can be useful, but in this case, your interpretation is very much up for debate. It appears to be based on your subjective desire to find water. I don't see anything that supports your interpretation. That's why we continue to ask for supporting evidence.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Moisture runs up hill. just think of Earth. the universe is not that different .3 AU away

But it doesn't turn the soil blue.

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah