Van,

I here you don’t like my interpretation; Tell me why it is wrong.

dfrank

Except it was pointed out long ago that this must be a false color (or perhaps just arbitrarily colored) image, and there were specific complaints about that. What is the point of using it, except that it might look more water like?

Basically, I see dirt.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Grand lunar,

We cant look at color, just discoloration.

dfrank

And you are assuming that because the soil appears blue, it must mean water. Is that it? If so, I suggest you confirm this in reality by the method I already explained to you.

Also, explain what you mean by your statement "we can't look at color, just discoloration".

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

dfrank, this has already been covered by myself and others. Reread the thread.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Guys,

Quit looking at color. The truth is we have no idea. If someone wants to start a color thread that’s fine. I have been trained by Hortongeardawho, from the Mars rover blog.

Think of the image as gray scale and look at photon emission.

dfrank

Grand Lunar, again you are assuming that he is basing the water theory on the blue.
he has not stated that is the case.
He HAS stated that there are differences in colors.
That can make sense.
I can tell Im looking at a picture of my face whether it is false color, regular or a negative.

Hortonheardawho*

Van,

I hear ya but you aint saying northin. You don’t like what I say but I don’t here it cant be because. Sounds like opinion.

dfrank

In fact, we know a great deal about the colors of Mars.

So, why are you using this blue image, instead of the other images previously linked to by Bman?

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

So why is he claiming that it's water then?

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

So what is the basis for your claims then?

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

That's what we are trying to drag out of him. <shrug>

Neveryfly,

Yes Hortonheardawho. sounds crazy but the best Mars man on Earth.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/

he gets a littke personal with his pics look past the family

dfrank

Why is this man seeing water? Look at the image. Look at the surface. It is water. I tried to spell it out. That’s what water does. It behaves a certain way. It is phase change.

dfrank

Try writing a Much longer, detailed post.

Does Hortonheardawho see water?

What image are you talking about now?

You have spelled nothing out. I clicked the link and the most water I saw in the photos was in Hortonheardawho's toilet.

You're not saying what makes you think it is water.

We've told you why the conditions on Mars are not favorable for surface water. Did you understand them, or must they be repeated?

Why can't the look simply be from the choice of filters used that make the appearence of certain chemicals and minerals stand out?

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

This is your personal opinion.

You have provided no supporting evidence for your personal opinion, despite repeated requests.

You have not shown why your personal opinion is the only explanation for the features in the image (this would require supporting evidence).

You have not shown why your personal opinion is better than the standard explanation for the features in the image (this would require supporting evidence).

What is your supporting evidence for your personal opinion? To be clear, this would be something other than, "look at the picture."

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Neverfly.

No hortonheardawho does not see water. He even has a soapbox. It would seem I am one of a few with the curse.

dfrank

Van,

The behavior of water is not up to me. It is not opinion. It is science. I challenge you to disprove any phase in H2O.

dfrankl

Van,

Translation. Let us walk through the image point by point.

dfrank

First, it's "Gillian," not "Gill." Please.

Second, all that means to me is that you spelled the word incorrectly for seven years. Look it up, if you like. The word is spelled "trough."

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Funny, I thought there were several people (including me) that pointed out that the temperatures and pressure at the site would make liquid water very ephemeral, at best. Hence, one of the reasons why you were repeatedly asked for supporting evidence.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Not a chance. If you are in the US navy and NOAA its. "trof," dont go there man.

dfrank

So the man you claims is the "best man on Mars" and the provider of the images you look at even has a soapbox about how there is no water?
Interesting...

Also, Van Rijn said:
You have not adressed my questions (aside from this last...)
I know you saw them because you asked me to wait with my questions right after.
I will ask again:
What was the atmospheric pressure?
What ws the temperature?
What was the time frame?

Was there water or evidence in the form of water marks? That is to say that water had been present but evaporated leaving a water mark on the soil (You can see these effects on Earth where water evaporates leaving almost like rings of a tree on rocks and concrete)?

Ok, this is trivial. Man.

Van,

I gave you a link that explains atmospheric pressure and temperature profiles. Did you read it or do I need to hold your hand and spell it out.

dfrank

Attack my reasoning.

Easy. You're begging the question. You started by begging the question. You're still begging the question. You apparently have no idea what begging the question is or why it doesn't work as an argument. And until you do, you will make zero headway.

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Yes, and I remember our previous discussion about it. Very clearly, from that evidence, liquid water would be very ephemeral, at best. (By the way, ad-hom ignored.)

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

YES!!!
Please hold my hand and spell it out.
Remember too that I know very little about photography, spectrometry, the martian atmosphere, phase-state differential and most of all, the conditions on the very surface of Mars where I would lay were I a puddle of Human.

Please spell it out.