Neverfly,

Not at all. You personally believe that it is water. That doesn't make the image an anomaly. It is still a perfectly normal picture.

That is am opinion. A dry dusty Mars should not produce an image that shows dampness or pooling. Anything else is an anomaly

Way outta line! Your own personal bias has no relevance to this picture. It has no place within your argument simply because you cannot back up those claims.
Admit to speaking too quickly on a person opinion and retract the statement. Then we can proceed to the science without arguing over a Red Herring.

The power of religion has been demonstrated throughout history. To say it does not exist today would demonstrate an ignorance of reality.

That is fine, but the trouble is you are spouting personal beliefs without backing them up with evidence.

All I have is history. If this forum will allow we will debate

JayUtah ,

The Harvard study was based in fallacy Please reread my explination. If you have any questions I will answer

Dfrank

It doesn't show dampness or pooling. Yours is also an opinion. Read JayUtahs rebuttle to this in the post above.
It remains a normal photograph- NOT an anomaly.
Again. Your opinion. Personal one at that. Red herring. Irrelevant to the topic at hand- Back it up- cite your references and sources with legitimate evidence to show how it pertains to this photograph or withdraw the statement.

The forum allows it just fine. The trouble is that YOU are not allowing it.

The Harvard study was based in fallacy

As is your own argument. Why should we excuse your fallacious argument but be bound to reject someone else's argument you say is fallacious? You are applying logical rigor selectively in your favor.

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Dfrank: is religion also impacting the space programs of Russia, all the ESA nations, and China, Japan, and India, for instance? Their scientsts have access to the same images you claim to have analyzed. They've gazed at your "water features", surely.

Where are the planetary geologists from other countries shouting their agreement with you? What? What religion is it that controls them all?

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A dry dusty Mars should not produce an image that shows dampness or pooling.

Begging the question. You have the burden to prove the image shows "dampness" or "pooling." It is not an anomaly for everyone simply because you choose to interpret it that way. You display little understanding of the difference between belief and fact.

The power of religion has been demonstrated throughout history.

Handwaving. Do you have any actual evidence that NASA is being improperly influenced by religion? Yes or no.

All I have is history.

You have made a specific, testable allegation. Vague references to "history" are not suitable evidence for such a statement. If I accuse you of theft, and you ask for my evidence that you have stolen anything, am I allowed to make sweeping statements such as, "People have been stealing things throughout history?" No -- you have a right to demand specific evidence that pertains to my accusation.

Similarly you have the burden of proof to support your specific allegation or to withdraw it.

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

NeveryFly,

It doesn't show dampness or cooling. Yours is also an opinion. Read JayUtahs rebuttle to this in the post above

Anytime an image changes that is a result of photo emission. For that to happen there must be a change in the medium.

Again. Your opinion. Personal one at that. Red herring. irrelevant to the topic at hand- Back it up- cites your references and source with legitimate evidence or withdraws the statement

I do not think we can dismiss the power of religion in science. I can not in good conscience withdraw my statement

The forum allows it just fine. The trouble is that YOU are not allowing it

I am here.

I have no idea what you just said. Are you now saying that the image was altered, doctored or falsified?

It still has no bearing nor relevance if you BELIEVE this is so or if it pangs your "conscience" to admit that you have no evidence to back up the claim.

If you want my own personal opinion: I dont believe that it does. See? We are getting nowhere with this method of debate. That is why evidence is needed.
Here giving Red Herrings and squabbling instead of focusing on the issue. Several posts later- You have yet to provide any evidence, cites, references, etc.

Maybe you are referring to lighting?

Dfrank - at 8 pages, we have come to an impass.

You are now handwaiving another unprovable claim - somehow religion is controlling NASA, with no other "evidence" than at some point in history some religion or other had impact somewhere, somehow, on someone(s). We at BAUT are already fairly familiar with the subject of religious history - I, myself, intensely so, and have used this knowledge to personally and convincingly debunk "Ancient Astronaut", "Nibiru", and other CT/ATM topics.

Here is the impass we are currently at: You are still dancing and speculating, whilst providing nothing of substance. Your next post in this forum will contain 2, and only 2 things:

1: A scientifically convincing analysis of the site you claim to be an anomoly, including all figures, graphs, maths, statistics, photo-analysis, etc... you used to verify your claim, and it will then be put to the crucible of reason and science.

2: You will provide, not a paranoid "Duh!", sweeping generalization of religious interference, covered by the "For those that have eyes that can see..." logical fallacy, but you will provide specific examples of religious interaction, specifically it's retardation of specific programs at NASA. In particular, you will demonstrate a clear and followable, causal link between religion and why your newly, scientifically explained anomoly was not explored.

ANYTHING in your next post, other than satisfying these 2 requirements, will earn you suspension in relation to the severity of the post. There will be no questioning of this decision. There will be no answers to any other questions on the table.

As you have indicated you are advanced in years and this knowledge has been accumulating in your head for some time, I expect the answer to be reasonably forthcoming, ie; if it appears to be ad-hocked and googled at the last second, you may temporarily lose posting priviledges for trolling, which is an acceptable suspension under the civility and decorum rules.

__________________
"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

"Gentleman, Don't confuse me with facts! My mind's made up!"

JayUtah,

With all due respect.

Begging the question. You have the burden to prove the image shows "dampness" or "pooling." It is not an anomaly for everyone simply because you choose to interpret it that way. You display little understanding of the difference between belief and fact.

There must be a change in the medium for the image to show a difference in any filter. There was a difference. What was the etiology?

Hand waving. Do you have any actual evidence that NASA is being improperly influenced by religion? Yes or no.

All I can offer is my mentor Galileo. Was he suppressed?

You have made a specific, testable allegation. Vague references to "history" are not suitable evidence for such a statement. If I accuse you of theft, and you ask for my evidence that you have stolen anything, am I allowed to make sweeping statements such as, "People have been stealing things throughout history?" No -- you have a right to demand specific evidence that pertains to my accusation.

Specific evidence in the face of historical suppression is like asking Sadom Hussein for patriots under distress

Dfrank: before you do anything else, read this recent article. Don't miss it. Don 't post without reading it.

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I do not think we can dismiss the power of religion in science.

You're not being asked to discuss the power of religion in science. You're being asked to provide evidence for your claim that an inappropriate religious influence has caused NASA to curtail its search for life on Mars. If you don't understand the difference, then you have not properly investigated your beliefs.

I can not in good conscience withdraw my statement

Will you at least concede that, being a purely subjective belief, it is inappropriate as a basis for judgment of others?

The forum allows it just fine. The trouble is that YOU are not allowing it

The forum disallows religious advocacy or polemics. It does not disallow discussion of the influence you allege.

It seems you're trying to warp this into a discussion of the validity of religion simply so you can walk away from it at our expense.

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

This is not an answer to the question. What is the evidence that the image shows "dampness" or "pooling"? (Please note that an answer of "I don't have any" is acceptable.)

So, should we take this as an answer of, "No, I have no evidence"?

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

There must be a change in the medium for the image to show a difference in any filter. There was a difference.

What hogwash are you spewing now? I fully understand the imaging system used on MER. Don't handwave about basic imaging principles as a means of evasion. What is your factual evidence that the substance in question is water?

All I can offer is my mentor Galileo. Was he suppressed?

Evasion noted. My question stands.

Specific evidence in the face of historical suppression is like asking Sadom Hussein for patriots under distress

Evasion noted. My question stands.

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

This should be emphasized. Dfrank, I would strongly suggest you answer Serenetude's questions before you go any further. I would also strongly recommend clear and specific answers. I doubt that vague assertions (as you have been giving) will be considered acceptable. I certainly wouldn't accept them.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Serenitude,

If you can not understand photon distribution and why it makes a differences in grayscale or otherwise we shall discuses.

Dfrank

It's somewhat amusing, Dfrank, that you told me the image wasn't false color, but grayscale, and yet in your first post, you call it a false color image. So, which is it?

Looking at it myself, the image is clearly false color. That is not water.
I've see an image of Europa in falst color look similar to this.

If I understand correctly, this image makes use of assigning differnt colors to different channels of light. This allows certain elements, minerals, or chemicals to show up more clearly. Hence, the appearence.

No conspiracy. Just good, clean, planetary science.

A bit of advice for you Dfrank; the phrase "I don't know" is an acceptable answer to the questions put to you.

__________________
This is no fantasy. No careless product of wild imagination. - Jor-El

Godspeed, John Glenn. - Scott Carpenter

And these atomic bombs that science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men that used them.
- H.G Wells, The World Set Free

To the conspiracy crowd, radiation is a big Boogey Man that inspires terror and death in all who encounter it. - JayUtah

Dfrank, I hope you are composing a real answer to Serenitude's questions. If you can't answer the questions, please say so.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

why is this still here?

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Here we go, color I love it, I will wait for Sereniitude

Photos by Hortonheradawhow

Dfrank

Lets get down dude

Lets talk black bodies

If you can not understand photon distribution and why it makes a differences in grayscale or otherwise we shall discuses.

Word salad. Kindly stop trying to bluff with vague buzzwords and answer the questions.

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

...assigning differnt colors to different channels of light.

And/or algebraic combinations of channels that correspond to different wavelengths.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

When asked to put up or shut up, it's sad how few CTers and ATMers are willing to utter the three simple words, "I don't know," even when it is obvious that they can't answer a question and failure to answer will likely be detrimental to their posting privileges.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

JayUtah

Word salad. Kindly stop trying to bluff with vague buzzwords and answer the questions

I have got a guy with a girl’s picture wearing me out

No word salad we will progress That is what makes a difference in photography. There need to be a definition otherwise the camera can not differentiate.

Dfrank

I have got a guy with a girl’s picture wearing me out

Personal attack noted.

That is what makes a difference in photography. There need to be a definition otherwise the camera can not differentiate.

I am fully aware of how photography works. I am also fully aware of how the MER imaging system works. I do not need to be instructed by you in basic photometry. What I need from you are the answers to the questions I have asked. Kindly provide them now.

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base