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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 26-August-2007, 08:13 AM
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That's going in the "One-Liners" thread. My sig is stuffed
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 26-August-2007, 06:00 PM
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Richard, I think you have the wrong orifice...



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Old 26-August-2007, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: New Hoagland Book
Pretty appropriate when one considers that the Enterprise (as part of its mission) navigated through the V'ger orifice.

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 27-August-2007, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: New Hoagland Book
Scott Adams must have read Hoagie's book.

Now we have some idea what the entrance to the Enterprise Mission's main bridge looks like.
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Old 27-August-2007, 05:37 PM
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Mike Bara is a consulting engineer for Boeing aircraft. This is his first book.
Do we have any info on Hoagland's co-author? Who he is? Where he really works? Credentials?
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Old 27-August-2007, 07:03 PM
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From what I can find, Mike Bara isn't really an engineer; he was employed by Boeing for ~14 years as a structural designer. He is now in a consultant role, providing CAD/CAM (computer assisted design) training.
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Old 27-August-2007, 10:15 PM
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In case anyone is unfamiliar with the distinction, a designer produces the design drawings, but an engineer does the work to ensure that the drawings make a workable machine. In other words, a designer works under the technical supervision of an engineer.
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Old 28-August-2007, 04:22 AM
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On saturday went to Chapters they did not have his book yet. But on sunday Space: The imagination station showed hour after hour of woo-woo shows so there was plenty of Hoagland and Friedman to make up for the difference. Only could take small peices at a time because I had a headache.
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Old 28-August-2007, 01:38 PM
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In other words, a designer works under the technical supervision of an engineer.

At Boeing that probably means he's a CATIA operator. Now I have a lot of respect for anyone who can master enough CATIA to get the job done. The problem I have with Bara is not his skill, but rather his insufferable arrogance. It's one thing to try to make arguments based on one's expert interpretation, but it's another thing for every other sentence to be an expression of how anyone who disagrees with him obviously lacks his talent, insight, and understanding.

Five or six years ago I pointed out some flaws in his "sphinx on Mars" claims, and the criticism got back to him. Instead of addressing the arguments factually, he simply dismissed me as someone who clearly didn't have the spatial reasoning skills that he did and therefore couldn't "see" what he saw in the photographs. I found that interesting, since my livelihood is based on my skill at spatial reasoning, my qualifications would probably have Bara working for me, and that my job just prior to that was in producing exactly the kinds of software tools he used.

So it seems Bara's m.o. is based in large part on browbeating people who question his opinion -- not a good way to get to the truth.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 28-August-2007, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: New Hoagland Book
When I was teaching GD&T as a part of CATIA implementation for the engineers at Electric Boat who were designing the Seawolf class attack submarine, I ran into a number of engineers who took the stance "What do I have to know this drafting stuff for, I'm an engineer!" Then there were the designers who thought they were engineers, but had no spatial abilities whatsoever. Once we got beyond the x-y plane, they were lost.

Those classes were quite a challenge.

But it was good to have enabled many of the Seawolf engineers to see the importance of knowing the language with which they would be communicating with the designers, machinists, and inspectors, as well as other engineers. Plus it was always rewarding when a designer would realize that, for instance, a form tolerance couldn't exceed a size tolerance for the same feature (something the Europeans still have to learn).

Nice to know that the boats have been out there for some time and are functioning smoothly.
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Old 28-August-2007, 03:34 PM
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Nice to know that the boats have been out there for some time and are functioning smoothly.
...except they keep sinking.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 28-August-2007, 03:55 PM
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http://www.enterprisemission.com/Path-sphinx.html

Bara fails to recognize the signs of an intervening rise between the camera and the bulk of his "sphinx." The left "front paw" is on the near side of that rise, not connected at all with the "sphinx" behind it, and likely separated from it by considerable distance. No, I do not consider that Bara has especially acute spatial reasoning skills as applied to photographic interpretation.
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Old 28-August-2007, 09:47 PM
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Well, Hoagie is not into, at least publically, reptillians or even the UFO lore in general. He's not one of those, really.

The NASA conspiracy stuff is on his website, if you take the time to go through the archives.

What his conspiracy theory is that, in the ancient past there was some advanced space-faring civilization in this solar system. We humans are somehow the remnants of that. Whether that civilization sprung up here, or on Mars (or maybe on one of Van Flandern's "exploded planets"), I'm not clear on.

Anyway, that's who built the face on Mars, the ruins on the Moon, etc, etc. Now, there is a secret group that knows the truth, of course, and they are hiding it all from the public. NASA is in on it, of course.

This secret group, the Masons and similiar, are the keepers of this secret knowledge. They still practive some ancient astrological religion, which is the "Osiris cult" of the ancient Egyptians. So, they have to launch all missions according to some ritualistic time-table respecting sacred astronomical alignments, such as Orion(Osiris) being 33 degreees above the horizon, and stuff that like. I wish I could remember the good ones, but it'll be in there. The Apollo landing sites are "temples", with key astronomical alignments involved somehow. And they all get together and worship Osiris or something. The whole Egyptian religion just secretly encodes the "true history of the solar system" in a way known only to the high priests.

Oh, and a young Zahi Hawass, the current director of antiquites in Egypt, helped pick the lunar landing sites -- he's in on it as well.

So while there won't be any reptiles in there, there will be mental imagery evoked of NASA officials dressed up like ancient Egyptians and doing all sorts of weird ancient rituals. And, to me, that's even more fun that silly reptiles and MJ-12 stuff. It's good enough to make a decent movie out of, if done right.

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I thought they already had

and a TV series

and a spin off
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 28-August-2007, 09:53 PM
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There's no Mike Bara in the Boeing phone or e-mail directories. He may work for someone else that provides services to Boeing, but it's common for those folks to be listed.
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Old 28-August-2007, 10:04 PM
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PW amazing how these theories make good science fiction.
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Old 28-August-2007, 10:23 PM
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PW amazing how these theories make good science fiction.
And it's amazing how many wackos think that the X-Files was a documentary, lol.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 29-August-2007, 03:22 AM
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PW amazing how these theories make good science fiction.
I suspect that science fiction is a major source of inspiration for the various space related CTists.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 29-August-2007, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
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Nice to know that the boats have been out there for some time and are functioning smoothly.
...except they keep sinking.

When commanded to do so. That's a big difference!
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 29-August-2007, 09:36 AM
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I suspect that science fiction is a major source of inspiration for the various space related CTists.
I have often wondered about the parallels between Hoagland's theories and scientology.

Jon
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