On my way back from getting my sea food pizza, a thought struck me

If the HB's are so convinced that they are right, why don't they club together and bring a private prosecution against the astronauts and selected people from mission control of the day, for conspiracy to commit fraud.

That is what they are accusing them of.

Of course there could be the danger of what we call in the UK a perverse verdict

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Fame, glory adventure, a cyber warrior craves not these things.

Well, if "perverse" is the polite form of "perverted", then it sounds about right, seeing what we're dealing with.

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

did this thought strike you because you smelled something fishy?

I was so wound up about the comments they put on my latest YouTube movie about this subject.

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Fame, glory adventure, a cyber warrior craves not these things.

But you know that THEM^TM would prevent that...

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"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach 1830-1916

Bart Sibrel said something like "he'd bet his life" that the moon landings were a hoax. I'd love for him to follow through with that one.

Also, since he doesn't believe that Apollo 8 went around the moon and said "Please be informed that there is a Santa Claus.", he doesn't accept that proof of Santa's existance and probably gets coal for Christmas. ;-)

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

I'm not sure this is meaningful under US law; I don't know anything called "a private prosecution". They would have to convince someone in the Justice Department to investigate such fraud charges.

They could bring a civil suit, but I don't know as to what - they would have to show how they were personally harmed by such a thing.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

To bring suit in the US you need to show that you are an injured party. You might be able to claim that NASA, et al, took your tax money and did not use it for the stated purpose (think "Nigerian scam"). However, I think the statue of limitations expired a couple of decades ago; you have only so many years - usually on the order of 3-7 - after the injury to bring suit.

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Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

I'd settle for a judicial "cease and desist" order against BS et al. Prosecution for fraud would be nice. As a criminal offense, the hoax hucksters could go to jail.

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"Transport of the mails, transport of the human voice, transport of flickering pictures - in this century, as in others, our highest accomplishments still have the single aim of bringing men together." St. Exupery

I will bet anyone here $10(Canadian) that the hbers will not put their money where their months are.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

That must be against some rule, but I'll raise by 2 well-preserved Spider-Man comics from '85 and '86, respectively.

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

As long as the mods take as a joke I am probably fine.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

I'm joking too, as I don't personally own those books, a family member does.

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

I'm calling both your bluffs then and I'm not joking.

I'm not aware of any conspiracy theorists who paid United States federal taxes during the Apollo project, so none of them would have standing.

It is possible to sue in civil court for the tort of fraud, as opposed to the criminal act of fraud. The standard of evidence is lower there than for criminal cases but the penalty is limited to civil damages, i.e. money.

In the defense, the claimant's own possibly fraudulent activity (i.e. selling for profit defamatory materials that may be shown to be either negligently researched or deliberately fabricated) may play a part, however I believe that defense applies only to activities attendant to the allegedly tortious act, not to subsequent activity.

I am not aware of any such case brought against an agency of the federal government, nor do I have the legal understanding to know whether such a civil action is even allowed under U.S. law. I believe that agencies of the executive enjoy a certain immunity from civil court action. The customary means of investigating the executive itself is by appointment of a special prosecutor.

One could attempt to bring civil suit against the astronauts themselves alleging tortious fraud for the selling of autographs, books, and other materials and for fees charged for personal appearances. Again, they cannot bring suit on behalf of others; they must themselves demonstrate standing by having been personally harmed as a result of the astronauts' activities.

Thereupon a suitable defense might mention the contributory actions of NASA, pointing out that the astronauts' ability and propensity to do such things would not have existed but for the actions of NASA in masterminding the alleged fraud and encouraging the astronauts' participation in it. In effect it is to argue that the claimant is suing the wrong person -- someone perhaps easier to prevail against than the real perpetrator.

The best defense, of course, is simply to let the claimants fall down the various legal pits that await them. A court trial is not about the impassioned arguments before the jury, but about the pre-trial wrangling over what evidence is admissible. What is presented before the jury is an orchestrated, negotiated stage play. And I would love to see the look on, say, Bart Sibrel's face when he learns that his "lethal" radiation claim will have to be proven in court, and the only experts that will be admitted to the stand are those with academic and professional qualifications in astrophysics.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

It would be fascinating to see it in a court, where the discourse is strictly enforced to supportable facts.
The evidence speaks for itself. Paraphrasing Gene Cernan in the Shadow of the Moon, in response to hoax allegations, Nobody, but nobody, can take the footprints I put on the Moon away from me...
Great flick...Mike Collins is a real wit.

I thought it was THEY^TM ?

Are THEY^TM and THEM^TM in cahoots? If so, that is truely a terrifing discovery. Lets just hope THE MAN^TM doesn't get into the conglomerate as well.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.

Theory of Zombie Relativity:
1) Everyone Else is a Zombie relative to You
2) Whether or not it matters is related to the inverse square of the distance between their teeth and your brain
(Quoted from Demigrog)

I doubt that would work anyway, as it's just taken as tax money (i.e., income tax, sales tax, property tax, et. al.) and not "Nasa Tax" "state route 37 tax" "new Whitehouse Toiletseat Tax" etc.
They break down what money goes where, but I don't think they're legally bound to hold it to that, though the qualifier "think" means I could very well be wrong.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.

Theory of Zombie Relativity:
1) Everyone Else is a Zombie relative to You
2) Whether or not it matters is related to the inverse square of the distance between their teeth and your brain
(Quoted from Demigrog)

what about judge Jude?