Has anyone heard of this guy? He claims that he had top secrect "crypto" clearance and was shown pictures of stuctures on the far side of the moon.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EJPD_emdcBg

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Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Yeah, yeah, by some other enlisted guy that just happened to be in the room with him while he was doing something and probably would have had no access to the super secret photo in the first place. Gees, is this what goes on at those meetings? Wow, they look like AA meetings or something, except that AA meetings actually do some good for some people.

This guy is only willing to testify under oath. Bad Bart stakes his life on his claims.

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

Well while I can't prove it, I can't see why a tech would have a top secret clearance for cryptography, or why that would really be significant to the issue. Or why someone with images like that would break clearance to show them to a repair guy, or even what the supposed airman was doing with them. I have no idea how you'd know that a room contained people from "all over the world" after all people of a number of racial descents already like in the US, and how do you tell one european from another when you merely look at them? Unless they all had name badges on, like "Hi my name is... Hans from Germany"

The story doesn't make sense at all. I wanted to know if there was more information about the shizter, or if he was just a newly emerging Donna Tietze trying to con people for money.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

What he describes bears no resemblance to the protocols for monitoring and controlling the visitation of uncleared workers in compartmentalized security environments, of which I am familiar. In fact, he doesn't even seem to realize that any such protocols exist. They include extremely dorky precautions such as wearing hats topped with flashing lights that convey the message "This person is not allowed to see what you're working on." He would not have been left alone with someone who had access to compartmentalized data. He would have been briefed on his obligations and the penalties associated with failing to meet them.

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Clavius Moon Base

In other words he's full of it, like I said. Filming these folks and making their meetings available on youtoob does not lend them any more credence than if they were showing the same flick on a street corner. It's a farce. No, I've never heard of this guy...before he attended some UFO meeting and had his Bart Sebrel speech uploaded to yoo2. Are we going to have a thread about every speaker at every UFO fan meeting that gets uploaded to t3htoob?

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GmIRU72b9...elated&search=
Here's another one of those videos where he tells the same story almost word for word.

In this video they show areas of moon photo's that are deliberately smudged.

These "cover-up" jobs look worse than M.R.'s Mars face fake photo's.
I would think that if we are going to accuse NASA of smudging and fudging photo's we could, at the very least, give them the intellectual credit to do a better job than a fifth grader would do ( A computer illiterate fifth grader).

What is an "Airman 2nd class"? That's a new one to me...

I never heard that either but I'm guessing "Airman (E-2)"
From good ol' Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._rank_insignia

ETA: To address this question before it is asked, Yes an airman or private can get Top Scret Security Clearance, however, his Top Secret access in "need to know" is more likely to be more restricted than higher ranks.

I pointed out a long time ago that Top Secret security clearance doesn't seem to mean a whole lot.
I made some erroneous errors too that Obviousman pointed out- and ended up studying up on the matter quite a bit.

Civilians can get those clearances. However, security is compartmentalized. Your "Top Secret" clearance doesn't grant you access to the materials I'm working on as part of my "Top Secret" clearance. Clearances are required simply when one is exposed to secret material, whether one actually understands it or manipulates it. Hence the number of people with clearances generally exceeds the number of people who actually produce or consume sensitive material.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

What is an "Airman 2nd class"? That's a new one to me...

The only thing it could be is E-2, but it's pretty uncommon for someone who claims to have been one to use a term no one else uses for it. It's about as low on the Air Force totem pole as you can get without still being in training (and one's MOS being bed-making). The notion than an airman E-2 would be sent to do work unsupervised is pretty farfetched. Yes, it's not impossible for him to have had a security clearance; I personally know people who received their clearances while still in training. But for him not to be semi-permanently attached to an E-3 or E-4 while doing actual work is not the normal way of doing things.

Investigation often requires us to assess the credibility of anecdotal evidence. There is one class of eyewitness testimony that presumes the standing of the witness. That is, the witness' qualification as an eyewitness present at the event in question is not reasonably challenged. If I hear a crash from the factory floor and rush in seconds later to see some bit of wrecked tooling lying on the floor and the foreman standing near it white as a sheet, I can rely upon his testimony to a certain degree: he is personally known to me to be the foreman and he was discovered by me at the scene of the accident. If I am the designated investigator, the foreman's testimony is presumed authoritative.

Another class of eyewitness testimony is the anecdote told long after the fact. In that case, it is not taken for granted that the eyewitness was actually at the scene. As part of accepting that witness as an authority, his presence at the attested event must be established. Often that is nearly impossible to do, either to establish or to falsify it. Thus we have to rely solely on internal factors to assess the evidentiary value of the testimony. In testimony such as this, where the witness claims to have been involved in his normal duties at a well-known place, credibility can be assessed on the basis of "color" -- or the seemingly unimportant details that are represented that would at least place the witness correctly in the purported time and place.

In Wolf's case the "color" test fails soundly. He does not identify his military rank using proper terminology. He does not describe his duties as those approprate to what we believe his real rank to have been. He does not describe an experience consistent with the application of secrecy protocols. While no test of "color" can be conclusive, without any other basis upon which to judge his testimony, we cannot accept it as credible.

This clip appears to be part of the Disclosure Project. Subsequently, the "color" test has been used to challenge and reject the testimony of several of the other purported military witnesses. They were asked to describe details of the places where they claimed to have worked, by people who had also worked there; and they could not. For example, if someone claims to have worked at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, I could check this by asking questions like, "Where are the dosimeters required to be worn?" (around the neck), and "What color are the community bicycles?" (orange). Those details are easily recalled by people who have actually been there, but would be difficult to discover for someone who was bluffing.

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Clavius Moon Base

I never heard that either but I'm guessing "Airman (E-2)"

In the Air Force, the enlisted ranks go:

E-1: Airman Basic
E-2: Airman
E-3: Airman First Class
E-4: Senior Airman/Sergeant
E-5: Staff Sergeant
E-6: Technical Sergeant
E-7: Master Sergeant
E-8: Senior Master Sergeant
E-9: Chief Master Sergeant

There is no Airman Second Class rank. According to this Wikipedia article, there were Airman Third Class and Airman Second Class ranks before April of 1952 but not since.

If the chart on that Wiki page is accurate, they no longer consider an E-4 a Sergeant. When I was in the Air Force, an enlisted person was a Senior Airman for a year and then had the opportunity to become an E-4 Sergeant.

As for a low ranking enlisted person having a top secret clearance, it happens all of the time if the person's job requires it.

As for a low ranking enlisted person having a top secret clearance, it happens all of the time if the person's job requires it.

For example, the E-2 who buffs the floor in a library where top-secret materials are stored has an appropriate clearance, even if he didn't produce any of the material in it, can't understand a word of it, and has absolutely no use for it in order to do his job cleaning the floor.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Further, it's been my experience that the less one has to do with said "secret material", the more likely they are to brag about having access to it in the future.

For those who actually worked on the secret projects, I imagine there's some pride in being "part of the secret", which keeps most of them from discussing too much about it. My best friend's uncle has some high-level or another security clearance on his sub. He knows we'd never "run and blab secrets"...we wouldn't even understand what he's talking about (I'm not really a nuclear engineer...though I do watch Simpsons). But some of the "coolness" of having access is knowing few other do too.

...unless you're a glorified janitor, then you want to make your job sound cooler so you feel...well, cooler.

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Further, it's been my experience that the less one has to do with said "secret material", the more likely they are to brag about having access to it in the future.

I concur.

Classified material is almost never as inherently exciting as people think it is. It is usually no different in character or implication than unclassified material. A spy photograph of a new Durkistani chemical plant is fundamentally just a photograph of some industrial stuff. It's secret not because it's exciting, but simply because we want to limit who knows that we have it. The details of submarine propeller design are secret because we don't want people to know how they're made, in order for us to have that strategic advantage. But they're fundamentally just a lot of mathemtical curves, dry-as-dust drawings, and manufacturing specifications. Yawn.

People who actually have access to secret material and use it regularly tend to normalize that activity as part of their jobs. The thrill very quickly wears off, to be replaced with more pressing ordinary concerns like, "When will you have that analysis done?" and "Hey, Bob screwed up his end of the process again!"

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Having been in the military (US Army Ranger), having had security clearances, and having performed functions I am unable to discuss publicly, as the days pass, and I hear more and more from both other vets and others with such clearances, I become more and more convinced that the more you talk, the less likely you were "actually there" Those of us that were remain silent. Speaking with people who claimed to have Ranger training, or to have performed what would now be called "Special Ops", but obviously have not, their media and rumor inspired conception of such things vs. my personal experience almost always makes for a hearty belly-laugh

I suspect it's largely the same in these cases.

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Bad Bart the Wild West outlaw from Adventure in Legoland? ;-) (Awesome book, by the way.)

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Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

This guy is bad Bart , otherwise known as Buzz Aldrins punching bag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_Sibrel

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davidlpf, I made a winkie at the end, like this ;-). That means I'm being sarcastic.
Yes, Bad Bart, aka the Moon Master, a comic book supervillian based on him that I drew.

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"Carl Sagan sent a message to ET,
Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

sorry missed the the wink.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan