1968

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iscovery1b.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A..._Odyssey_(film)

1969

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/te..._Sunbeams.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11

later stuff…

Feather and Hammer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM0FDGOsslU

Operation Lune

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Si...n_(documentary)[/QUOTE]

Operation Lune, if you can find it on the www is downright creepy.

BTW the Rover dust is hard to debunk. I'll give you that

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Belief is the Enemy of Truth

2007

Astronauts have not left Earth orbit since the Apollo program ended.

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Belief is the Enemy of Truth

DrdB
So, what's your point? Are you claiming the lunar landings were faked?
(By the way, 2001 is a great film, I saw it when it first opened in 1968. But I also watched men walk on the moon).

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

You left out some stuff. Unfortunately, like many HB's, you totally ignore Project Mercury, Project Gemini, and Apollo's 7, 8, 9, and 10. So,

1961 - 1963: Mercury program. Tests initial ability to put a man in space. Longest flight is about 1.7 days

1965 to 1966: Gemini program. 10 manned flights test details of rendezvous, long duration flight, EVA's, and orbital dynamics. All of these are required for the eventual success of:

1967 to 1972: Project Apollo: Design of the Apollo spacecraft began in the early 60's, so this date only refers to the launches. In particular

October 68: Apollo 7 tests the Command module in earth orbit.
December 69: Apollo 8 tests Saturn V and actual lunar transit.
March 69: Apollo 9 tests the LM in earth orbit.
May 69: Apollo 10 tests LM in lunar orbit including descent to within a few thousand feet of the surface.
July 69: Apollo 11 actually lands on the moon.

So, when you look at the whole space program you should see a logical progression of tests and gradual growth in complexity. That's the real history of Apollo, not some gobbled together conspiracy.

ETA: Ah, I see you're talking about the infamous parody film in which Rumsfeld supposedly "confesses" to the faking. A total fabrication and joke. The inability to recognize parody when it's happening seems to be a feature of most HB's.

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"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - William Thompson, 1st Baron Lord Kelvin

"If it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be, but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" - Tweedledee

This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. - Wolfgang Pauli

A music business lawyer acquantance told me he once dinner with Neil Armstrong. Neil had a minder(s?) with him, and no dinner conversation about Apollo was permitted.

I find it strange that the astronauts seem reluctant to talk about their experiences. Their behaviour is more redolent of shell-shock than triumph.

Face the press with Armstrong Aldrin and Collins...

http://www.EricHufschmid.net/apollo1...conference.wmv

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Belief is the Enemy of Truth

Oh give it a break! A friend of a friend of a friend told me... Blah blah blah. No evidence, no proof, no argument.

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"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - William Thompson, 1st Baron Lord Kelvin

"If it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be, but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" - Tweedledee

This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. - Wolfgang Pauli

Of course Operation Lune is a parody. By the time we are in Vietnam if you haven't 'got it' your IQ is not above room temperature.

Strange that people like Rumsfeld etc played along, I thought.

2002 Operation Lune

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Belief is the Enemy of Truth

That is pretty funny (I suspect you were not trying to be funny though).
Armstrong is apparently a very private person and does not talk about his experiences.

I would recommend you see the film In the Shadow of the Moon which has interviews with all the surviving Apollo astronauts (except Armstrong who did not participate). At the end of the film they spend several minutes debunking (actually making fun of) some of the conspiracy stuff.

Now, other than the lawyer acquaintance, do you any actual evidence?

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

So if the film is a parody what the heck in it makes you think the landing was faked? Don't you suppose Rumsfeld, Kissinger, et al might just have a sense of humor and thought it was a lark to do the film? As to Hufschmeid, he's a totally discredted source here and his "arguments" have been debunked many times.

As to you, you're doing the HB dance right now moving around arguments. See you later troll.

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"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - William Thompson, 1st Baron Lord Kelvin

"If it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be, but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" - Tweedledee

This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. - Wolfgang Pauli

DrdB, You are pretty new here. Please be careful about making statements that are insulting to individuals or groups. Question their arguments, but don't insult them.

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Forming opinions as we speak

Some friendly advice, loose the insults, or you won't continue to have an opportunity to participate here.

Ok, what about Vietnam, I missed serving there by about 2 years. What that got to do with this?

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

I find it strange that you say that so soon after the commercial release of a film in which virtually all of them do just that....

The astronauts are anything but reluctant to talk about their experiences. They've written books, apeared on television, spoken to the press and to authors. Many of them are selective about whom they speak to, and Armstrong has to be especially so because he was the first. If he answered every single request to talk about Apollo 11 he'd do nothing else with his life, ever.

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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." The Doctor, Doctor Who: The Face of Evil.

I am just relaying what I was told. The lawyer is semi-retired now, but was one of the top 2 in Scotland during the 80's and 90's.

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Belief is the Enemy of Truth

I always have to laugh when people bring up "Dark Side of the Moon" as some sort of evidence of a hoax, because it immediately alerts me to the fact that they have not the foggiest idea what that movie is actually about.

Here's a clue, DrdB:

The movie is a send-up - the conspiracy nut's version of 'Spinal Tap'. I suggest you actually sit down and watch it all the way through - especially through the closing credits.

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

This I have not heard of. Too much surf 'n' studio maybe?

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Belief is the Enemy of Truth

Well, good for him or her - I hope they are enjoying their semi-retirement. And this proves the moon landing were a hoax how?

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

This I don't understand - I was being general - of course 'Lune' is a hoax.

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Belief is the Enemy of Truth

Ah - I see where the misunderstanding has arisen. In the 'plot' of 'Lune' the CIA are supposed to be going after the people who made the 'Apollo hoax' film - and the action moves to Vietnam. By now what had started out as a semi-plausible expose is becoming ludicrous. No offence meant to ex-Nam vets, or anybody else.

Does this clear things up?

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Belief is the Enemy of Truth

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Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

I doubt there is anyone around who does not agree with the movie Operation Lune being a parody, so I don't think anyone would have been insulted in practice .

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

I'll second the recommentation for "In the Shadow of the Moon"...many Apollo astronauts are giving their thoughts on things throughout the movie, a lot of very interesting insights. They are a funny bunch too.
Yeah, the astronauts haven't exactly been "mum" about their experiences...
Dave
(To the Moon, produced for NOVA, is another good one...)

And I would like to add another nail to the coffin of this comment.

In August I went to Spacefest and
personally met a whole lot of the astronauts that walked on the moon. (and I have the pictures to prove it). These men had no "minders" sitting near them (except their wives hah!) and talked very openly, freely, and willingly about their experience. They gave speeches, shook hands, signed books, talked and talked and talked...for 3 days. Your claim, second hand as it may be, is simply preposterous, as my FIRST hand experience proves.

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I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

I am just relaying what I was told.

Unfortunately what we're hearing from you third-hand, which you are recounting second-hand, bears no resemblance to the kinds of experiences we and others have had with the Apollo astronauts. When an anonymous third-hand anecdote is the anomaly, what should you properly dismiss? The anomaly or the rest of the evidence?

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Face the press with Armstrong Aldrin and Collins...

Eric Hufschmid it simply regurgitating Bart Sibrel's claim. Sibrel is full of all kinds of fanciful ideas why the astronauts aren't bright-eyed and chipper at this cherry-picked event. And not surprisingly, Hufschmid is full of exactly the same ideas.

Hufschmid was invited to defend his Apollo claims on this board, which he attempted very briefly to do. At the first sign of difficulty he simply accused everyone else of being less intelligent than he and departed the field, never to return.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Funny, the Mythbusters are actually planning to use that very same facility to bust the moon-hoax myth...

NASA Plum Brook hopes to help bust Moon myth

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Webmaster, Rocket & Space Technology

From what I've read about Neil Armstrong, he takes his name and image seriously.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Armstrong
He doesn't like it being exploited or used for profit.
An incident with his barber:
Armstrong sought restitution, not money. He wanted his hair back. Not money. If the hair was gone then the money went to charity, with charity also a common theme with Armstrong.

This... Is what it means to have a sense of honor. And he's adamant about it.

He has no tolerance for charlatans that will try to financially take advantage of something that he took part in for all humanity.

I would consider this as something fundamentally noble or "good."

For some woo woo to come along and twist this mans sense of honor, distort it into something fundamentally deceptive or "bad," disturbs me greatly.

For some woo woo to come along and twist this mans sense of honor, distort it into something fundamentally deceptive or "bad," disturbs me greatly.

Especially when it's quite evident the charlatans are making the accusations in order to obtain their own notoreity, and perhaps money.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

I'm too young to remember Gallieo probing Jupiter and I still know that the landings were real.
Blessed are those that did not see and yet believe...

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

I'm too young for Apollo too. Yet it isn't about having witnessed the event.
I'm also too young (relatively anyway) for Uri Geller.

The evidence and facts are not lost in time. A thousand generations from now- those children will still be able to determine the truth (assuming that all these records aren't lost in some catastrophe...)

Good luck to them.

IMO, the moon landing HBs are the most obstinate of all the conspiracy theorists. If you flew them to the moon and shoved their faces into the footprints, they'd claim they had been put there by unmanned probes.

After all, if we had really been able to do that in 1969, we'd have suburbs on the moon by now.

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