It's even worse, he had to ask about the shadow and lighting issues (and most other issues) in his own forum back in 2004.

Good points, Extracelestial.

It's really amusing how the hoaxers (now and then) tend to recycle their misinformation and try to market it as something new. I guess in the current culture, they will prosper, since knowledge of history is seen as uncool.

Meanwhile, welcome to the BAUT.

Read the FAQs, especially the rules, and have fun.

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You just answered your own question, and of course there is the innate UK specialness....

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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." The Doctor, Doctor Who: The Face of Evil.

Yeah, yeah. (The farthest I've ever been out of my own country is about 25 miles, depending on where in the Strait of Juan de Fuca you consider "out of my own country." In other words, I went to Victoria, BC a few times . . . .)

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Then I am very, very uncool and proud of it.
"When in the course of human events, it becomes neccesary for one people to disolve the political bonds..."

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Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"The only way to explore the universe is to go and look." - Brian Cox
Well, the best way to find out is to go there and, find out. - Raven's Cry
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

Just a question, I'm not up to speed on this . I looked at Jack White's pictures of moon landings, and several do seem to have ananomolous background objects like set props and inconsistent shadows. I'm sure they landed on the moon, but Jack White is an expert photo analyst. What mistake is being made here? There must be some resolution to this "paradox".

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"fifty is nifty" , unknown poet

The mistake is right here:

"Jack White is an expert photo analyst".

He isn't.

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"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head" Terry Pratchett

I'm sure they landed on the moon, but Jack White is an expert photo analyst.

No. Jack White is not an expert photo analyst. Jack White has an almost complete lack of any discernible skill at the interpretation of photographs, and absolutely no training whatsoever in that field. Most untrained amateurs I have met have better luck interpreting photos correctly.

Let me say that again. Jack White does not even have ordinary photographic interpretation skills (i.e., basic spatial perception).

There must be some resolution to this "paradox".

In general, the resolution is that Jack White commonly mistakes ordinary phenomena and situations for "anomalies." For the past several years he has tried to make a name for himself as a photo interpreter, but only through the popular conspiracy theories such as JFK, 9/11, and lately Apollo. He has absolutely no credibility outside of a small group of fanatic followers. And he typically ignores all rebuttals and criticism, or dismisses it without further comment as the work of disinformationists and troublemakers.

He relies mostly on the delusion that he is some sort of expert, and others' willingness to accept that without question.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Thus are the ways of paradox, how common sense she gaily mocks...

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Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"The only way to explore the universe is to go and look." - Brian Cox
Well, the best way to find out is to go there and, find out. - Raven's Cry
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

I can't resist asking you this question (sorry for the brief diversion from the main idea) , since I've been in earth science a long time, and there are palm trees in Florida (no kidding);

but what interests me is the gulf stream. Are there actually palm trees in western coastal England? I used to watch this sitcom called "Fawlty Towers", set in Torquay, and they said there were palm trees in Torquay, but that was John Cleese farce and all, so I wouldn't count on it.

Here's an instructive site:

http://uk.weather.com/maps/maptype/i...emp_large.html

I look at my world current temperature map everyday and I can really see the effect of the gulf stream in bending the isotherms northward toward British Isles/Scandanavia in fall/winter . Look at the way northwestern Europe is protected from that really cold stuff.

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"fifty is nifty" , unknown poet

Yes, there's plenty of palm trees in Cornwall, mainly on the south coast, but a few elsewhere. They survive because we're the warmest bit of the UK in the winter, thanks as you say to the North Atlantic Drift current.

Googling for Cornwall palm trees will bring up examples.

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"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head" Terry Pratchett

You're probably correct . All I remember of Jack White was a show he did on "Badge Man" (along with Gary Mack), where they got a very fuzzy shadow on the grassy knoll, not very convincing photography, it seemed more like seeing patterns in clouds.

And something has to be wrong with this moon hoax business anyway, because (a) tons of moon rocks are here , I've seen one . How else could they have pieced together detailed lunar history without actual moon rocks? (b) Buzz Aldrin and Ed Mitchell have confirmed it, I don't blame Buzz for punching that guy

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"fifty is nifty" , unknown poet

All I remember of Jack White was a show he did on "Badge Man" (along with Gary Mack), where they got a very fuzzy shadow on the grassy knoll, not very convincing photography, it seemed more like seeing patterns in clouds.

That is correct. White went into the darkroom and kept englarging and contrast enhancing until something suspicious-looking formed. At the tiny scale of the "Badge Man" image, most of the detail (in the sense of sharper features) you see is photochemical and not optical. Seen in context at normal scale and contrast, that area looks no different than any other part of the tree.

Jack White is completely ignorant of photo analysis, especially perspective. One of his "studies" on Aulis shows a picture of a jet engine on the street in NYC on 9/11. Most would look at the picture and realize the engine is in front a trash can in the background. Probably at least 10 feet away. White has said the engine was in the trash can. I know that 9/11 is a taboo subject here so that's all I'll say about it. I just wanted to mention that to illustrate White's inability to comprehend even basic perspective.

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"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

Amazing.

I see one slide called 'The Cornish Riveria.
This Mediterranean-looking view of Porthminster beach ...'

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"fifty is nifty" , unknown poet

Badge Man is probably Jack White's best known invention. It's somewhat relevant to point out White's absurd contributions to other, off-topic conspiracy theories in order to calibrate your credulity for what he offers on the subject of Apollo photography. Badge Man is an example of what happens when enlargement removes important context and invites you to imagine detail that would have been contradicted by the original scale. His other attempts at photographic interpretation, e.g. 9/11, reveal how inept he is at spatial reasoning.

But it's not merely ineptness and ignorance. Here's an example of the typical Jack White Apollo mess. http://www.clavius.org/bigmt.html It employs the crop-and-resize trick White has used on a number of occasions to create the appearance of anomaly. Since White has been reminded repeatedly that his crop-and-resize process cannot preserve important spatial relationships, it's more likely at this point that it's manipulation intended to mislead the viewer.

He has also used cropping and composition to omit from the viewer's attention important evidence from photographs that contradicts his findings. On one occasion he composed a fanciful lunar skyline from several Apollo photographs, trying to show that they all reproduced the same theatrical backdrop. After critics painstakingly discovered which photos White had used for his composition (White typically won't tell you) and located the full-frame versions, they discovered that the portions of the skylines in them that White had cropped away bore no resemblance at all to the idealized continuous skyline White had invented.

And in keeping with his notoriously bad spatial reasoning ability, White maintains that the photographic record inconsistently documents the LRV deployment schedule. White mistakes the first-deployed MESA for the later-deployed LRV packaging, unaware of the sides of the LM on which that equipment was installed. And to support his wrong interpretation, he offers pictures of the half-built LM where he displays his legendary inability to recognize whether he's looking at the front, side, or back of the lunar module.

Granted, the convoluted surface of the ascent stage and the relative symmetry of the descent stage can make such orientation difficult to people who aren't accustomed to looking at the spacecraft. But once you point out key features, most people are able recognize them in other photos and improve their ability. Not Jack White. No matter how many times you point out the identifying markings of the lunar module, White never figures it out. He is simply worse than an amateur at basic exercises in spatial reasoning.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Quite the "epic" debunking Jay, thank you. If it weren't for people like you who take the time to examine the original photographs and show the truth behind the deceptions it would be much more difficult to convince anyone who's been deceived. You not only "expose the truth," you explain it in terms anyone can understand. I have friends who have been fooled by these cons, and sites like clavius are vital to me as a reference for setting the record straight. Just wanted to say thanks again, your work is much appreciated.

Sorry about straying off topic again, but at least it's related to a sort of a hoax. :-)

Many of the "palm trees" in Cornwall give us Kiwis a bit of a chuckle, because they are actually New Zealand cabbage trees (Cordyline Australis, Cordyline pumilio, Cordyline indivisa, Cordyline fruticosa and Cordyline banksii), which can grow up to 12m (40ft) high and look a bit like a palm trees, but are not palms at all. The cabbage trees were taken back to Cornwall around the mid-1800s by my Treseder relations who, being gardeners in the Truro area, came out this way to Australia and New Zealand to collect new specimens. My late mother's maiden name was Treseder.

See also Wikipedia for more illustrations and descriptions of the cabbage tree:
The overall visual effect is said by many to create a view reminiscent of a palm tree (it is occasionally even mis-named "Cornish palm", "Torbay palm" or "Manx palm" in the British Isles due to its extensive use within Torbay and as the official symbol of that area under its alternative identity, the English Riviera).

Doesn't mean that they all are cabbage trees. Try looking for Trebah or Heligan gardens.

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"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head" Terry Pratchett