So yeah, there I am reading up more on 2012 (not panicking mind you )

And came across this little tidbit(it's long!) about Don Alejandro

And Mr.Alejandro says

Seems like an interesting and rational mayan belief, well alot better than a laser beam exploding us do to planetary alignment!

The link is http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012.html

Carl Calleman - http://www.calleman.com/ (He's the one mentioning the elder)

And also - Evidence! http://alignment2012.com/mayan2012statements.html

Enjoy! By all means, shoot down ideas in this thread mind you

OK.If that means what I understand the "solar meridian" to mean, then, it does that twice a year during June and December. This seems to be meaningless. If the Earth and the center of the galaxy are taken as two points, then, guess what? There's no "alignment". One needs three points to determine an alignment. If this is supposed to mean the Sun is located, as seen from Earth, at the same location as the galactic center, then, no, it doesn't. It's off by 5 degrees of arc, i.e., about 10 Moon diameters, as shown in this post. Be sure to check the link to the star chart.

Otherwise, what will actually happen is a ho-hum annual event produced by the orbit of the Earth. The Sun is close to the galactic equator every year around the winter solstice.

Senor Carlos may be well-versed in Mayan mythology and calendars, but his astronomical expertise is wanting.

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I agree, but that's just it, the Mayans did not have the technology we do today.
But even this "elder" doesn't believe that the world is going to end, all this 2012 nonsense is taken from that, I think this can easily clarify some of the situation(or so I believe)

Oh, he also claims that we will pass through a "Dark-rift" for about 60-70 hours, and doesn't know the out-come this is going to have on earth..

Now, as far as I can tell, there is no "Dark-rift" that is in the path of the earths orbit around the sun. Around then.(Agreeing with Maksutov, this guy is not a top-notch Astronomer.)

BTW, the same kind of thing happens every summer solstice too. See this star chart for where the Sun is when summer (in the northern hemisphere) starts. Note the proximity to the galactic equator.

The doomsayers must have a thing against summer.

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I know I do! It gets awful hot where I live.

I can't claim expertise about the Mayans (though I did study them in college), and god forbid I speack against a Mayan elder, but this sounds like hogwash. I studied Mayan astronomy, I do not recall any indication that they knew what a galaxy was or that it had a center to align to, and I do not recall anything about a "dark-rift". I think Don Alejandro has spent too much time with new-agers on the internet, and not enough time studying Mayan codexes.

Just my humble opinion.

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Well, the guy who was translating it translated it into "Dark-rift" he doesn't know exactly if this is what he was saying.. So the elder could be talking about something completely different.

See, just as I have said. In Mayan cosmology, the end of a long count cycle is a begining or "rebirth", not an end.

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

Another day, another 2012 topic for my collection:

2003 no, 2012 si
2012
Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012?
2012 alignment question
about the Mayan 2012 item
2012 Debunking?
Possible asteroid impact in 2012?
2012 asteroid?
We don't have to worry about 2012!
More on 2012 from India Daily
2012 Completion of conspiracy?
Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012...
crop circles, Planet X and 2012
Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma
According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012?
More 2012 Nonsense
NEO 2012?
Dangerous NEO in 2012?
Christmas 2012
2012 mayan calender end of world
Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012
New 2012 threat?
2012 look at this thing on the sun
Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012
Pole shift idea origins
Dec 20 2012
2012 Stuff
Horizon Project-New End of World Scare?
Date: December 21st 2012
Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen?
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything)
So what will we see in 2012?
Galactic Tsunami?
Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy?
Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012
2012?
Any truth to this?
How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre?
the whole 2012 poles flip nonsense
Planet X Official Advertisement
What year are we in
Quick question about the sun
Galactic Alignment
Books of 2012! -
2007 = 2012
Return of Planet X By Rand
Don Alejandro - Mayan Elder.

More, more, more! This important and significant issue cannot be overpromoted.

Or... can it?

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In my brain, Don Alejandro is Zorro's father. I'm certain he doesn't know anything about the Mayans.

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"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

DELL: The proof is all around you! You act like nothing's happened!
SHAGGY: We can try. (Starts whistling)
-Scooby Doo and the Loch Ness Monster

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

That's O.K. I on the other hand have "Alejaaaaaaaaaaandroooooooooooo!!!! Maaaaaaaaaaaayaaaaaaaaa!!!" running thought my head ad nauseum

(That's a Heroes joke for those who are confused)

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Carl Matherly

Offical Battlestar Galactica Apologist

Named Time Magazine's 2006 "Person of the Year"

Five more years of this nonsense? Well it will be worth it on December 22, 2012 when all the believers climb out of their various holes, come down from the mountains and figure out that basically-nothing has changed.

Problem is, they'll just pick another date to worry about. Pretty sure 2032 is already in the running. Or was that 2023? Oh well, 6.5 of one, half a baker's dozen of the other.

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Dun dun DUN, You need to be able to "BAN" people from the internet, would solve a lot of these problems.

The Mexican Maya I know don't recognize this guy as any sort of leader, nor the groups with which he is affiliated as representatives of their culture or heritage. Granted the mileage of Guatemala Maya may differ.

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It wouldn't.
There always has been a lunatic fringe.

And if you start with that, where would it end?
A one-man internet. Pretty useless.

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No, they'll just rationalize it away and stay huddled for the "real" end of the world.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

As they did on January First, 2000, June Seventh, 2006, and probably countless days before.

__________________
I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

And even if he was some kind of a Maya religious leader, why should we listen to him instead of a bishop, or a lama?
Why should we accept whatever the Maya religion (allegedly) prophesies? What makes it more real that any of the other religions and prophecies in existence?
Do the doom sayers have any reason or justification for that?

Well, if even the actual Maya religion does not fit what the doomsayers are saying (which is the case), it certainly says something for their case.

__________________
I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

Huh? What certainly does? For whose case?

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

That the doomsayers are saying the mayans said that it's the end of the world, but that's not true in this case, is what she's saying I believe.

If you believe that the end of world will occur on December 21st, 2012 you also have to accept that the world was created in 3114 BC. Of course in Mayan belief the "end" just means a change.

But of course after the passing of THIS nonsense more nonsense will follow, that is what makes fringe so interesting.

Actually, it makes it tedious IMO. Like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", without the wolf.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

The case of the doomsayers.
Why do they want the world to end? Can't they just wake up and appreciate what a beautiful world it is?

__________________
I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

Because then they'd have no doom to say, and no one would pay attention to them.

Most, but not all, "doomsayers" also have the "my knowledge makes me one of those who will be spared" syndrome, allowing them to feel superior to the "sheeple" who believe the "illusions" put forth by "The Man".

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Carl Calleman seems to me like a Carlos Castaneda wannabe who's found his Don Juan in Don Alejandro. Smells like a bad case of new age rubbish to me!

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Microsoft is over if you want it.

The bar has been lowered for the promotion of ATM ideas; the bar for the acceptance of ATM ideas must remain high.

Seriously, though, that anyone would feel in such a way depressed me. You don't need attention and book deals and 'I will be spared, but you will die' junk.
Get a couch. Get a book of poetry. Get a blanket. Get some tea. And you will have all the hapiness you need.

__________________
I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

Different people are made happy by different things.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort