As people in the deep South of the US would say, "That was a very poe joke".

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Now there's a refereeing decision I can agree with unequivocally.

Having said that technical analysis of commodity charts does imply some kind of nonlinear event in 2012

comodity charts?

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

So.....getting back to Stichin....

__________________
PJE

There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.

Sitchin, to his credit, doesn't believe Nibiru will return in 2012. Though I wish he'd be more forthright to his followers about it.

__________________
There is a growing tendancy to think of Man as a rational, thinking being, which is absurd.- Marvin the Martian.

It's gotten to the point where careful investigation is needed just to tell parody from reality. I think that means reality is broken.- Noclevername.

Well, why not pick up his last book, The End of Days - Prophecies of Armegeddon and the Return and see what he says himself?

I mean, if you'd waste a wish on it, maybe relying on his followers isn't too prudent.

Although, it seems you know enough to say he doesn't think Nibiru returns 2012...


Any other nuggets?

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Brown Dwarfs, as we understand them, are still quite mysterious.
I think we neither know enough about them nor about our outer solar system to say so matter factly there is no solar companion. Any number of scientists have suggested something big remains undiscovered in the outer system. This guy, particularly, has been publishing work for over 20yrs.
Moreover, WISE has yet to launch and previous studies are inconclusive.
I withhold judgement.

As far as the Nimbru(sic) info, I suspect you misunderstand.
When do you think The Lord shall Return?

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Brown Dwarfs, as we understand them, are still quite mysterious.
Well, that's not fair. You're basically saying that "Because we don't know everything about them, you can't be sure of anything about them."

We know that an object that size would have a gravitational effect on other bodies it passes by. That's a property of mass, and is not "mysterious".

And we know that Brown Dwarfs still have active fusion of deuterium and lithium, and thus should still emit photons what we should be able to detect.

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
Ignore enough evidence and anything can be called mysterious or unexplained.

As for the speed of this supposed galactic wrecking ball; I did some quick calculations.

We're suppose to be "dwarfslapped" in roughly four years (off by 20 days, sue me). That's 24 hours (day) x 365 days (year) x 4 (rough, but useable). Gives us 35040 hours to live.

Well, lets say that this invisible brown dwarf is at Pluto's distance from us (roughly 591350000km). We'd certianly see disturbances in planetary orbits if it were that close, but we don't. So we know if would have to be farther out. But, I'm still going to use Pluto's distance to prove my point.

At that distance, the death star (get it? It's a star that will kill us? eh?) would have to be traveling at 168765km/hr. Not an unheard of speed for a celestrial body (only ~60,000km/hr faster than we orbit the sun).

But wait ... faster than we orbit the sun? This is a body that supposidly lives out in the dark depths beyond our inner system. Bodies, in order to stay in orbit, move slower as they move away from the sun. So why is this doomshpere staying in our neighborhood?

And remember, this all assumes it's only as far away as pluto as we speak. This is an object bigger than Jupiter. It can't be that close and still undetected. Thus, would have to be moving much faster than described above.

So either it's being steered, or cannot stay in our galaxy's orbit.

Though I did see a nice picture posted earlier about the "irregular obit" of Niburu. Makes as much sense as any of the other claims.

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
Ignore enough evidence and anything can be called mysterious or unexplained.

Indeed, and WISE is designed for just such a mission.

Observation and recent discoveries in the outer system as well suggest something large might be out there.

Are you saying there's no basis for the work of Whitmire, Matese, et al?

Also, do such discoveries as this make it any more fair?
Or do we simply not know enough?

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

According to whom?

I think you're analysis just made a wrong turn...
unless of course, you're out to debunk the people who are mistaken about Nibiru to begin with.

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

I was refering to the 2012 claims, yes

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
Ignore enough evidence and anything can be called mysterious or unexplained.

I have read End of Days. And he waits until the last few pages to even MENTION the Nibiru/2012 craze. If he really wants to put a damper on this he wouldn't be so circumspect. He should have flatly disowned the 2012 conspiracy years ago, but he won't take the appropriate stand for some reason, which as far as I'm concerned partially implicates him in whatever may result. If I had a series of ideas, be they scientific, pseudoscientific or religious, and someone was using them to spread fear and panic, I would have been out there on the stump, denouncing such behaviour in my name.

__________________
There is a growing tendancy to think of Man as a rational, thinking being, which is absurd.- Marvin the Martian.

It's gotten to the point where careful investigation is needed just to tell parody from reality. I think that means reality is broken.- Noclevername.

Careful with the Sitchin

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

Curious, in my copy he addresses 2012 in the Preface.

The final chapter though, "Armageddon and Prophecies of the Return" deals with not just 2012 but other prophecies/dates as well. What do you recall is the significance, if any, of 2012 according to Sitchin?

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Yeah, no doubt.

But I've had to ask before how we avoid him when someone comes along talkin Niburu, Nimbru, Nibiru etc.

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

well, I start by looking at it as Fiction like any other 2012/ Nibiru/Planet X based nonsense.

It helps

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

I'm familliar with this work, and every thing I've read about it states that it could be no more then 3 Jupiter Masses. This is far shy from the mass needed for be a brown dwarf. ALso it doesn't say this mass is all one object, it may be quite a few.

We know enough to say the following about brown dwarfs.

1. They are over 12 times Jupiters mass.
2. They shine from both Gravitation/Thermal emissions and deterium/lithium fusion emmisions.
3. They have been already driectly imaged at distances of up to 50 light years.
4. Because of #2 and #3 we can extrapolate that at a distance of 2 light years, a Brown Dwarf would be (in dark skies) a visible object. At about Magnitue 8 or 9.

Conclusion I made and make again, for such an object to be further then 2LY and hence, unnoticed and still be in orbit, it would need an obital velosity thats faster then light to reach us in the next 4 years. Which is an impossiblility

Even if it was not in Orbit, but on a strait line one time pass, it would still need to be moving at 25% the speed of light (or more depending on distance) to get here in time. There has never been one documented case of any stellar mass object moving at these sorts of speeds.

An object moving at this speed through the interstellar medium, would have a -huge- bow shock, that would be intense enough to also shine, and likely outshine the object itself. Making it even less likely it would be unnoticed.

Ethier way there can be no brown dwarf on it's way, we'd of seen it a long time ago.

__________________
There is no problem that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives - US Army Demolitions School

I just saw Hayley's comet, she waved, Said "why you always running in place? Even the man in the moon disappeared, Somewhere in the stratosphere" - Shinedown

http://worldsofothersuns.home.comcast.net/

(I'll add, since I did the same thing, that the 2012 dooms-day references in the answers aren't directed at you A.Dim; you're not making those claims. But because people that do make those claims also read this thread, they're still relevant to include).

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
Ignore enough evidence and anything can be called mysterious or unexplained.

__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

It is sweeping statements like the ones above that give armchair scientists a bad name!

The universe is mind blowing in magnitude and to think man is anywhere near comprehension is at minimum arrogance!

2012 will not be the end of the world and the world will not end by a man made event. That's my hypothesis based on my special book and it can be tested!

Kind regards,

Paul

Why is it arrogant to state what we know about Brown Dwarves and how does it give scientists a bad name?

As for your special book, it's not a suitable subject for this forum.

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

How?
dgavin did not make a sweeping statement. He answered the question.
The question asked "Do we not know enough?"
dgavin answered that we know enough to make rational and intelligent judgments on the Niburu claims.

If I asked you if we know enough to say that the Moon is not going to fall into the Earth within the next month, would your answer be a "sweeping statement" when you describe the celestial mechanics that prevent such a thing from happening?

What does this emotional statement have to do with ANYTHING that dgavin just said?


So you now claim that you are making a prediction?
You said it can be tested... Are you TRULY willing to allow it to be tested? That's a rhetorical question- I think we both and we all know that you will never allow a true testing.

I said it directed at a specific statement earlier, but I'll repeat;
The fact that we don't know everything does not mean we don't know anything; and the fact that there's still unknowns does not make the knowns any less important.

We know how big a Brown Dwarf is, we know that they do give off light, and we know that they do have gravity appropriate for their mass; thus we do know that a Brown Dwarf anywhere in our vicinity would be seen. I don't care how vast the universe is. Compared to me, Ohio is vast too. I can still see a bus if it's parked in front of me, even if I can't see what's going on up in Cleveland.

...that doesn't mean there couldn't be object(s) (plural, in my opinion, is most likely) contained in our solar system in or beyond the Kuiper Belt that we cannot see. They are not Brown Dwarfs.

__________________

I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
Ignore enough evidence and anything can be called mysterious or unexplained.

The description for the known properties of matter are well defined. What is known is measured to a high degree of accuracy. The important stuff is what don't we know and how could it be recognized in time.

Ah but as humans there has never been a shortage of ego to make up for what is not known. The argument most likely will be about who is right and why after the event, that is how it usually works.

Paul I hope you are right. I read the special book too. You may notice a few things in the book look remarkably like this scenario but because I could be wrong I do not post on those forums where my humble and possibly misguided interpretation could cause offense.

Are you kidding? That ego usually results in the arrogance of promoting the impossible rather than the plausible.

From the Link:
Yeah... Great find there Micheal Noonan.

This article goes on to claim that 9-11 was a hoax and inside job...
and claims that Rockerfeller said as quoted:
It also claims that Rockerfeller planned and promoted womens liberation in order to destroy the "Family" in order to secure power and control over the populace

What person in their right mind could take such dribbling drool seriously?!

all very nice but not a suitable subject for baut

__________________
All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
─────────────────────────────────────────────
◄Rules For Posting To This Board ► ◄Forum FAQs ► ◄ Conspiracy Theory Advice ► ◄ Alternate Theory Advice ►

Chipping can be.
Check the numerous golf threads.

Yes, it is mostly all off topic. Eh..

Just a note- brown dwarfs can be as cool as 600K. At that temperature they would not glow at all. Such cool objects, far from an illuminating star, would be hard to see in the visible spectrum- but an infra-red survey might pick them up.

__________________
New Orion's Arm Site . The Starlark . Against a Diamond Sky (OA Novella Collection) . OA Flickr set

Agreed the idea is very close to the line and I am sorry about the 9/11 stuff. Some sites have more than just the select bit of information (in this case disinformation) that I want. The point is that micro chipping and automated tracking of human beings was considered and to their credit some states have passed laws against the use of chips.

If one is going to look at what is commonly referred to as 'Armageddon' then it is a whole of picture approach. That means forces of nature and it means that people may have a part in the event as well. I know from my reading that in one section a third of humanity is said to die. Well is that a best or a worst case scenario?

How does one do an analysis in a logical sense without dragging the topic into a religious discussion. It is very difficult especially when I am trying to see if a unified concept of forces means the Armageddon spoken of starts with world wide nuclear holocaust in the bunkers and not just some idiotic political decision.

That would mean that America, Russia, China, England, France, India and Pakistan are directly at risk. Because Israel officially does not have nuclear weapons it is 'officially' not at risk. And then there are the nuclear fleets under the oceans. Now I have a letter from August 11 this year from the department of science and innovation that thanks me for my letter of some months earlier and the department will look into it.

As I have not been contacted for any notes I figure that the officials in the 'clever country' must be truly brilliant or telepathic. Why are there no sightings of population III stars as predicted by the mainstream model and evidence this last month of much earlier rapid structure formation discovered in the form of super massive early black holes? Deep space is cold but inter galactic space is remarkably hot at 1.2 million degrees and we are in chimney like structures of reduced heat (down to 6,000 degrees).

There is what would be called a non zero possibility that the dynamics of the universe may be variable. Not enough is known and more to the point I am not getting through to anyone that time is possibly short and potentially very serious. So yes I am worried and trying to make contact without success.