Well said, Van. I think Hubble ST would have picked up "Planet x" quite a long time ago. I'm sure that if actual co-ordinates exist for such an object,
they will dial in this "object' for fun and profit.
Big credibility gap here, I'm afraid.
Best regards, Dan

Nibiru is a monopole? Now that would be interesting!

Unfortunately I suspect it’s just a sad indictment of the level of scientific rigour that has been applied by these people.

__________________
Dog

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell

If you become convinced of this, then perhaps you should sit down with some type of financial advisor. For example, you may want to sell your house or refrain from buying one. Quit blowing money on long term life insurance. Run up that credit card debt with impunity by the end of 2011!
Your reaction to your new findings should tell you whether you really believe it or not.

The purpose of science is to explore, understand, and find new, strange things. It is always a delight when receiving new data that the unexpected has been found. Every space mission so far has pushed the boundaries of our knowledge and further exposed the beauty and deep mystery of the universe. With every mission, we hope that well find something so staggering that it will revolutionize our view of the cosmos.

However, what this staggering bit of data, or the emphasis behind it, is to a trained scientist and a journalist looking for a hot story to publish are, sadly, not always the same thing.

The Washington Post, 31 Dec, 1983 published an article entitled "Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered"

Let me emphasis the statement "All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is", again.

At the time of this article, the astronomers were excited by new and mysterious data. They were still working on the data and trying to form some conclusions from it.

Did they ever figure out what the mystery object(s) was?

Of course, they did.

They published the results in the trade journals (The IRAS view of the extragalactic sky, IN: Annual review of astronomy and astrophysics. Volume 25 (A88-13240 03-90). Palo Alto, CA, Annual Reviews, Inc., 1987, p. 187-230. NASA-supported research.).

The results were, from a layman's perspective, prosaic and uninteresting, as IRAS had discovered a class of luminous IR galaxy.

No death planets. No fat-headed aliens. No UFOs.

Excuse me for being critical here, but it would be an assumption of mine that as an author, you would have already performed far more time researching your book than the four hours I have spent digging through old journals.

__________________
The views expressed are the febrile product of an overactive imagination of a person who in shadows sees the gyrating Elvis-like ghost of Leonid Brezhnev.

...the level of scientific rigour that has been applied by these people.

Amen. My mind boggles at the claims of "scientists" who pin their hopes on magnetism without knowing the first thing about it.

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Hi, Jim:

BTW, I love your signature text. Carl was truly one-of-a-kind, and he died FAR too early.

About a worldwide flood, I agree. Instead, think of it more as a series of huge tsunamis caused by crustal shifts during past flybys. That is how The Kolbrin Bible describes them in several places in the text.

Also, about the arks that were used to survive them, it seems that 300 X 150 X 50 is the standard configuration for them. 300 units long X 150 units wide X 50 units high. In cubits, that's no small dinghy!

Princess

I already know what Jacco looks like. As for publishing peer-reviewed papers, unlike those who must publish peer-reviewed papers to be recognized in a scientific community that buries its collective head in the sand whenever their A + their B /=C, he is busy, working at a real career, making real use out of his scientific talents to save real people from drowning in the event of a real failure of the Dutch levee system. That is his "day job," and not his writing. Can you say the same for yourself, or are you just racking up copyrights?

Those who can do things do them. Those who can't do them teach. Jacco is a do-er. Are you?

Hi, Swift: Cute frog.

I have to say that I hope everything you said is true, but I do have an answer to your last statement. Unfortunately, all of the planets are being perturbed. Again, google Clyde Tombaugh, John Couch Adams and William Herschel.

Cheers,
Princess

How does googling Clyde Tombaugh, John Couch Adams and William Herschel give an answer to the question?
I googled it.
Got 593 hits, which discussed the perturbations that are known. These known perturbations led to the discovery of Uranus and Neptune.
Pluto was not necessarily discovered by this method.
Perturbations accounted for. No Planet X or Niburu is evident.

Hi, Donnie, and thanks for the VOC. I was more concerned with the delusional ravings part.

As for scientific illiteracy, I guess that depends on the beholder and what's being watched. As I stated before, I hope we are wrong, and we all get to enjoy wonderful, fruitful lives until we turn 120 and decide that enough is enough.

The fact of the matter is that things around our little blue marble have been too quiet for too long. The last impact event of record that I know about was Tunguska, and that was just a little scratch, compared to what other planets have suffered in other time periods. That concerns me.

I am a mom who raised two kids, and whenever those two kids got too quiet for too long, I went and peeked in on them. Something had to be up, and it usually was.

Cheers,
Princess

Can you go into a lot greater detail on this claim?

Specifically, what is the timeline for each planets greatest impacts?
Is there a regular set impact event calender?

On a cosmic scale- how long is too long?

Where are the impactors? In the Early days of the solar system they were a lot more common. Time has passed and the occurrences grow more and more rare.

Lastly, claiming that "it just seems due" holds no water when compared to that there is zero, none, zilch, no evidence whatsoever that there is a Niburu.

Hi, Pete. Good to meet ya, and thank you. That's correct, but I prefer to use my handle on the boards.

Quickly, I can't address every question, but yes, we did consult NASA and other professional journals.

There is evidence, and I stated some of that in previous letters.

The distance question is good. Space bodies have magnetic polarity, so it's like taking two magnets and pointing their north poles at each other. The closer they get, the more repulsion you see. Otherwise, if the opposite poles are pointed at each other, they draw one another in.

But suppose that there is also electrical polarity. Opposite poles can cause lightning, with the electricity going from positive of one body to the negative of the other. If the electric universe theory is proven, not only will it make Jim McCanney happy, but we could see electrical sprites coming from the sun and going towards this thing as it approaches.

How close? I am no scientist, and I prefer to write about humanity rather than this, but from what I gathered in working on the book, it depends on the power contained in both bodies.

On the disk, have you ever seen a weight plate underneath the body of a van? Or those plates that they put on the road to allow drivers to drive over construction areas? Those are flat, and they are no more than 1 inch thick. Yet, to lift one takes a crane or a tractor, because they are very dense. And looking through one edge-to-edge is impossible. That's why I used the pea-soup fog analogy.

Ah, this one is better suited to me. The Sumerians lived about 6000 years ago, which did include one flyby.

I am not a scientist, so I don't have the calculations. We have some in the book, but I did not make them.

About the hoping that these things don't happen, I don't think that's a negative self-assessment at all. I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would want these things to happen. Many of us see them as inevitable. I choose to see them as likely, that the future is not written in stone. However, as a former Girl Scout, I also like to be prepared.

According to the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Sumerian creation story, the planet that Earth used to be was located in what is now the asteroid belt. Another planet crashed into it, splitting it into one small whole and millions of tiny parts (small and tiny relative to the planet that supposedly crashed into it). The tiny parts became the asteroid belt, but the small whole was knocked inward towards the sun. The impact rearranged the water that covered the planet into seas. According to the Sumerians, the planet that crashed into it was captured by the sun and trapped in a long elliptical orbit. I don't have a copy of this book, but have read bits of it here and there on the web, in English, of course.

The sun going crazy. Hmmm... We just entered solar cycle 24. Solar cycle 23 was pretty crazy, in itself. It had a double-maximum, and we had to invent a new solar-flare class to measure the whopper flares it sent out. Lots of CME, too. All of my friends and I expressed gratitude whenever one of the giant CME's pointed away from Earth. Yet, NASA has predicted #24, that peaks in less than 5 years now, to be 1.5 X the strength of #23, which was much stronger than many of the cycles before.

Thanks again, Pete. I'm sorry to have had to remove most of your letter. I didn't want to top-post.

Cheers,
Princess

. . . by a nearby brown dwarf? What's your specific evidence?

I'm afraid I have no idea what those historical references have to do with the subject of perturbation by a proposed nearby brown dwarf. Please clarify.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Just a heads up--it's easier for your posts to be understood if you put what you're responding to first, so we know what you're talking about.

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Ahhh.... E.U. Theories now.

Princess Vader,

You say, " I am not a scientist."

You seem to be taking the role of one who is relaying information rather than demonstrating it or theorizing about it.

Considering a great deal of what you have claimed in your posts, it is quite apparent that you are being rather misled by, not just one, but a series of several theories that are demonstratively inaccurate and based on misconceptions.

I would suggest that you hang around on BAUT and read the older threads on
Electric Universe
Niburu
Planet X
2012
Mayan Calender

If you are going to report on subjects, you need to research them and learn about them. Saying that you are not a scientist is not an excuse for publishing faulty science.

Hello PrincessVader08,

Welcome to BAUT. Unfortunately although I believe your explanations are quite good I do have a few problems with them in that it is only one option in a range of multiple probability.

Due to the same thing as tipping points that one would find in the climate model this is a time of separation of destiny and therefore a choice of paths.

The problem is that there are no 'good choices' in a structure of six higher time charged dimensions. I can't go on too much as this is not the section for it , as if any section was.

Option one hasn't happened ... massive electrical connect from ionosphere to earth with the energy of three Mt St Helens being released every second.

Option two there are no black holes but the world could get ripped through a wormhole. As time is near a point of reverse any worm hole will bend around the curvature of time and space sending whatever goes through it back to the past.

Option three a time charged matter swing does take place if we haven't destroyed ourselves by then (and going just what will happen destruction is not such a bad option really).

The key problem is the balance of the power of mind in relation to matter and for how long. It sounds crazy and it is crazy but this is what happens in a time charge system.

1. Mirror reflection of crossing point at right angle to the solar system. Maybe a heat or slow signature received first, maybe not. Later appearance that the systems are on a collision course. They are not but no one gets to see that because they have their own concerns at the time.

2. The balance of energy of the mind call it conscious energy becomes proportionately greater to 'time charged matter' and it can manifest. Similar notions are present in 'M' theory but the clear ones are the body may take on what it feels it needs. The sensation of scratching a missing foot to relieve an itch may make the body 'try' to regrow it from remembered position. Worse for the conflict between mother's body and child due to the lowering of the barriers for natural re-absorption.

3. Mind ... call it metaphysics, call it conscious energy may be able to reform if strong enough. Once you take that idea a few more steps you will see how creepy it is. Hint need for organic material and water, that is why water is seen as purifying because life is extremely persistent.

4. Mind perception ... a state of conscious over reality be it good or bad or unexpected. In other words do not think about what you do not want being real. First advantage and its a biggie ... the teenagers who really do know everything are finally in a position to prove it with no possible parental control. The trouble is so are sociopathic minds.

That is the metaphysics. At some point as a system collapses in on itself it becomes more dense. There may be matter states above the proton that will allow that. Perhaps I shouldn't have said this much but it is a burden that I am struggling with. Good luck in your quest and no I am not a scientist either just struggling with this insane set of circumstances, cheers Michael.

So, it appears you are saying you can't answer any questions about science arguments presented in the book. Is this correct? I have to say that so far this appears to be very poor science. Is there anyone else who worked on the book that could answer our questions?

So, you can't actually point out where the Epic of Gilgamesh uses (for example) the term "elliptical orbit"? I'm afraid this all sounds like it is from Zecharia Sitchin's wild imagination. I certainly don't recall anything like this from when I read an English translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh and people in the field roll their eyes when the name "Sitchin" comes up.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Now Mr Rijin you must know that its all true I tell you!!................ except for the lies

So you know where you stand. It don't change much round here does it.

__________________
"Attack the idea, not the person" Posted by a Moderator.
Useful words around here indeed!!

With reference to the Epic of Gilgamesh. As I have not come across this before, and why should I, but decided to do a little on line research. Now this can in no way be described as definitive, rather a scratch of the surface. I am already aware on Cuneiform by the way. Where are the references to what is claimed, that is the way the solar system behaves as described above? It appears to more of a tale of a great king and his interaction with life and the gods, as perceived at the time.

Hi Kermit.

Two corrections and a suggestion: It is Nibiru, not Niburu; It is Sumer, not Sumeria; And I suggest, if you're genuinely interested in this topic, you read The Earth Chronicles, particularly the first book, The Twelfth Planet for a fuller and more accurate understanding.


Regards

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Hi Princess, and welcome to BAUT.

The Sumerian story of creation is the Enuma Elish, not the Epic of Gilgamesh.
You can read it in its entirety on SacredTexts.com, if you're truly interested.
And it appears, as so often is the case with 2012/Planet X believers, you've not read The Twelfth Planet and are operating on second hand information.
As I suggested to "Kermit" you'd do well to consult the original work on Nibiru, that being Sitchin's The Twelfth Planet.


Regards

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

It doesn't say that at all. There is a reference of "stars of the sky appeared,
and some kind of meteorite(?) of Anu fell next to me" and "Watchmen of the Night, the stars". Maybe I missed it. Can you give a citation, here?

Epic of Gilgamesh

__________________
The views expressed are the febrile product of an overactive imagination of a person who in shadows sees the gyrating Elvis-like ghost of Leonid Brezhnev.

Right.
As I noted above, the Gilgamesh epic is not the source for Nibiru. The Enuma elish is.
Are you familiar with it?
Try reading it as a description of the formation of the solar system with Apsu as Sun, Mummu as Mercury, Lahmu and Lahamu as Venus and Mars, Tiamat (half Earth, half "hammered bracelet" or asteroid belt), Kingu as Moon, Anshar and Kishar as Jupiter and Saturn, Anu as Uranus, EA as Neptune, and Gaga as Pluto.
Marduk as Nibiru.



Regards

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Okay, Kaboink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
electricity going from the positive to the negative body?
I would surely hope that you mean the opposite, having researched scientific journals and all and written a book.

Indeed, in plasmas the positive charges can also move, but the main stuff currents are made off are electrons, because they are so much lighter and so much easier to move around. Especially if you want to discuss lightning.

The electric universe theory is proven, uhhhhh which electric universe theory do you mean here? And Jim McCanney, you mean the guy with the unreadable website? and the BA discusses here?

Up to now you have not shown any scientific insight. You may be a worried mother, but I would worry about your children in traffic, eating junk food, binge drinking, unprotected sex. All these things are a zillion times more likely to hurt your kids than this non-existing Planet-X Nibiru (actually, a zillion is too small, because divide by nothing gives you infinity, but I am open for an impact of a TU24 like object).

So, princess, sleep well, and keep away from science.

__________________

Any comments in glorious red are to be considered in ModeratorMode.


善數, 不用籌策 (shàn shù, bù yòng chóu cè)
He who is good at counting, uses no counting tools
“A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is”
道德經, 二十七 (dào dé jīng, 27)

Not familiar with the other but I did see your reply after mine and started to look.
Thanks.

Again, invoking those who predicted and found the outermost of the classical nine planets is scientifically illiterate at best, and deliberate misrepresentation at worst. Their discoveries have nothing whatsoever to do with a fictional massive body which periodically dives deeply into the solar system. The calculations for these outer planets not require "Nibiru/Planet X".

This is simply an appeal to the general notion of gravitational perturbation in an attempt to borrow some scientific credibility.

__________________
"Slapping a guy on the head is just as funny now as it was eighty years ago."

Dang. Well, at least I had a interesting time re-reading ol'Gil the Thigh-Tosser.

__________________
The views expressed are the febrile product of an overactive imagination of a person who in shadows sees the gyrating Elvis-like ghost of Leonid Brezhnev.

Ouch! Painful Nancy Lieder discussion flashbacks!

Aren't we all dead already due to Planet X's arrival on Nancy's schedule?

As for scientific illiteracy, I guess that depends on the beholder and what's being watched.

Science is not about opinions and subjective impressions. It's about learning the objective truth about the world around us. Reality, despite the fashionable drivel promoted in the popular culture (e.g., "What the Bleep Do We Know"), does not depend on one's viewpoint. In the words of Daniel Patrick Moynihan,

"You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."

The fact of the matter is that things around our little blue marble have been too quiet for too long.

Gambler's Fallacy ("things are bound to change soon") coupled with a vague appeal to the undefined notion of "too quiet".

Besides, you are contradicting yourself. You're claiming, without evidence, that all the planets have been undergoing global warming (which includes one with no atmospheres), and that the Sun has been "going crazy". All this activity is going on, but simultaneously things have been "too quiet"?

The last impact event of record that I know about was Tunguska,

Impact events happen all the time. Attached is an image of the aftermath of one from 2003. True, major impact events have been - thankfully - rare as of late (as in millions of years), but this is a natural result of the gravitational "sweeping up" as our solar system evolved.

and that was just a little scratch, compared to what other planets have suffered in other time periods. That concerns me.

The allusion to "other planets... in other time periods" is far too vague to be of any use. It's an appeal to emotion, and does nothing to support the idea that "Nibiru/Planet X" has anything to do with meteorite/cometary/asteroidal impacts past or future.

I am a mom who raised two kids, and whenever those two kids got too quiet for too long, I went and peeked in on them. Something had to be up, and it usually was.

I'm a dad raising a kid, and I'm also a practicing space engineer, and I also have a degree in space physics and significant experience in astronomy. I have observed that kids and planets are different things.

Cheers,
"sts60"

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__________________
"Slapping a guy on the head is just as funny now as it was eighty years ago."