I remind her of a teacher she knows

first they have to know the difference, second they have to have clue about how life works, how cold things get that far from the sun. After they finally realize that their theory is that far from reality they will realize how bad their idea is and finally they would debunk their own theory and would not post here trying to prove it, so never.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

Oh Mak, glad to see you back.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

Well, so did the makers of Armageddon (the movie), they even list Joseph P. Allen http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/persons/...-d/AllenJP.txt
as a consultant. I think we don't have to start another discussion about the scientific accuracy of that movie...

Well, my reactions are that i'm still going to work, still planning to visit my family in FL soon, still gonna go snow boarding for the first time in 12 days. Still enjoying EVE online, still in love with my wife, and to be honest once i got up from the computer the first night, i sort of laughed about it. But it is good that one of the sources/co writer of the books about Planet X found this forum and thread. Makes for some really good reading.

Quick thing, about the time humans existed on Earth. Yes, i know the scientific evidence out there for the length of time humans have existed here. I really meant to say human civilization. No body really knows if Sumer was the earliest human civilization, only the earliest one we have found. I'm hard pressed to believe that they were the first human civilization if humans have been here for 40k+ years(Cro Magnon). Plus, we can only do science on what we find, doesn't mean its absolute(when referring to human existence).

The government is expert at keeping secrets.

I laughed alot at some of the responses. Links were interesting and previous posts gave me much insight! Since I joined the military to pay for college i think i'll go into the field of science and astronomy cause thats the only real interests i have at the moment ( plus i want to sound sophisticated like some of you ).

Hi PVader! Yes i know Cosmos is a good show even though it was made before i was born. Hey try and get the authors of the book on this thread since you know them so well. Thatd be for some real good reading.

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"If We Crave Some Cosmic Purpose, Then Let Us Find Ourselves A Worthy Goal." - Carl Sagan

"I've lost mobility in my main mixing finger" - Ali G

Hi Jim.

I don't understand how a discussion of Nibiru can be separated from Sitchin's ideas.
T-shirt or no, is his work not the origin of the idea?


Regards

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Basque separatist, huh?

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"That's Not Blight. It's New Jersey" - The Wall Street Journal

The government is expert at keeping secrets.

Unfortunately the physical world is less expert at it, and it is upon the basis of observing the physical world -- not some imagined faith in government -- that we can confidently reject these doomsday theories.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Two. Big Sis, and Big Bad Boo. Both post here. Boo's 17th birthday is tomorrow, (Valentine's Day)

Extra, that was funny.

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Gimme a minute to read through Jay's latest observations...

Hi Mak.

I don't know what "Nibiriunianism" is but it appears Whitmire has been publishing objective evidence for 20yrs.

There's lots o data and theories in there...

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

You're a snow boarder? Well, gee, why are we wasting our time with you?

Yes, it's possible Sumer was preceded by one or more other civilisations. One of the more interesting theories I've read about is actually contained in the novel "Atlantis" by David Gibbins. The plot is a bit on the implausible side, but the underlying theory seems fairly reasonable to me.

But the other thing about Sumer is that it's possible to trace the steady development of both city states and literacy over time. It's not as though they popped up out of nothing, so it's reasonable to believe they developed both all by themselves.

As for no other civilisations appearing in the previous millennia, the driving force behind the development of civilisation is gathering together enough people that they can support an elite that does none of the drudge work of keeping people alive. In places where we know civilisation emerged, this was the result of populations settling in places with fantastically fertile soil, such as rivers in Mesopotamia, Egypt, India and China which were fed by silt from the mountains. Elsewhere, population densities were too low to provide enough food for an elite to live off others' work.

So if you want to hypothesise a pre-Sumerian civilisation, I suspect you need to look at unexplored sites on land regularly fertilised with rich silt from a river. Where those sites might be, I don't know, but I did see a program recently in which an otherwise unremarkable river valley in Iran was shown to be a source of buildings and complex pottery, of an age similar to Sumer. Likewise, perhaps some further exploration could be done around Catal Huyuk in Turkey...

No, actually they arn't.

The Iran/Contra scandal is one of many many cases where the information leaked out on a project.

One I had some personal involvement in as the driver for the shipments.

As to the topic, We can see planets the size of Pluto out past the orbit of pluto. (Eris, Sedna). A brown dwarf star would be detectable at over 2 Light Years distance.

There is no way you can get around that fact. If such a star existed, we would of seen it long ago.

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"There is no problem that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives" - US Army Demolitions School

http://worldsofothersuns.home.comcast.net/

Unfortunately none of them matches Nibiru. I've looked at several papers of Whitmire's in the above link and they all tend to suggest a brown dwarf of about 3 Jupiter masses at a distance of 25,000 AU. A little bit of elementary celestial mechanics yields a period of about 4 million years, not the supposed 3,600 years of Nibiru. Whitmire's papers just do not support your claims.

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Microsoft is over if you want it.

The bar has been lowered for the promotion of ATM ideas; the bar for the acceptance of ATM ideas must remain high.

Can you give us a couple of examples of secrets the governmnent kept for any extended period of time?

The Sumerian SAR, being 3600yrs according to Sitchin, could well be wrong.
For me, it doesn't have to have a 3600 yr orbit, it only needs to exist.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

... and have life
... and have intelligent life
... and have intelligent life capable of space flight
... and have intelligent life capable of customizing chimpanzees to serve as slaves in gold mines and then teaching said customized chimpanzees agriculture and other bits of civilization
... and yet leave behind not a single trace of their presence here, not even so much as a lousy outhouse

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Microsoft is over if you want it.

The bar has been lowered for the promotion of ATM ideas; the bar for the acceptance of ATM ideas must remain high.

And have intelligent life capable of living in Earth's environment despite having evolved and lived for millions of years on a planet that orbits in what is essentially interstellar space.

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Wikipedia: A MMORPG for self-denialists.

It's gotten to the point where careful investigation is needed just to tell parody from reality. I think that means reality is broken.- Noclevername.

Hmm, I thought I had... Oh, yeah... I did.

I hope that is clear to everyone.

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Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov