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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 01-March-2008, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: UFO over London

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Originally Posted by chrissy View Post
if it was a speedo it would reflect on the drivers side window not on the windscreen, i tried zooming in on it and there are some words on the top it either starts with an O or a C could be a takeaway coffee cup lid or it could be a side speaker!
Agreed. I first thought it was taken out the side window. But it's now apparent for the reasons related in other posts it was taken out the windshield and therefore unlikely to be a gage on the dashboard. It's definitely something inside the car reflecting off the inside of the windshield.

Might have been already mentioned, but the sharpness of the "object" compared to the blurred images of pinpoint/linear objects (the lights on the carousel and the illuminated windows in the buildings) indicates two things. First, te blurriness was due to car motion combined with slow camera shutter speed (to be expected with a nighttime shot with what's probably an automatic shutter speed system). Second, if the distance of the object had been equal to or beyond the distant objects (all of which are at photographic infinity), then it would have displayed the same blurriness, instead of the sharpness that indicates it was "moving" along with the car (which is what internal reflections appear to do).

BTW, car interior geometry (with angle of incidence = angle of reflection) would require one to be either close to the side window, tipped way back in one's front passenger seat, or in the back seat in order to see a reflection of the dashboard gages reflected off a side window.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 01-March-2008, 12:42 PM
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Just as a side note, while driving home from a friend's last night I paid special attention to just what reflected in the windshield. While the dials did not (speedo, tach, etc), the center dash area with the radio did. And my g/f's car, like many, has dial-select A/C controls. Could very well have been that
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 01-March-2008, 01:55 PM
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Default Experts? UFO Experts?

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Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
UFO snapped over Thames



Keep in mind that the Sun is the British version of the National Enquirer.
How can there be such a thing as an UFO expert?.
So far not a bit of UFO has been produced not to any audience and we're left with poor pictures. So what does said expertise then build upon? Without a single artefact there's nothing to be studied by experts.
There are certainly many unexplained phenomena in the world and UFOs are but one. And as much I'd love it to be the extraterestial spaceship hypothesis (this is certainly the most exciting one!) alas, there are many other explanations (ranging from physics to psychology - you name it) with higher likelyhood.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 03-March-2008, 08:37 AM
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Experiments in my own right hand drive car suggest that the dial was actually somewhere near the centre top of the dashboard, depending how far forward you lean. This car (or more accurately Ka) or one quite like it might fit the bill
http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/f.../medium/21.jpg
(suggested by the folks over at the Fortean Times forum)
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 03-March-2008, 09:56 AM
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I started to look at various cars to see what dash would have said instrument. Then lost the will to live so gave up. There are a number of small cars with instruments in the dash for starters before the larger ones are taken into consideration.

I should add that I think the Sun is probably very tongue in cheek with this.
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Old 05-March-2008, 10:43 AM
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Millenium wheel reflecting in windscreen.
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Old 05-March-2008, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean Clayden View Post
Millenium wheel reflecting in windscreen.
I'd quickly discount that one.
Same angle in both shots? And; some complicated angles of multiple reflections in the first?
Besides, the edges are too smooth compared to the real thing.
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Old 05-March-2008, 07:47 PM
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I took a fresh look at it today, before the coffee had a chance to work it's sweet, sweet magic. The first thing that came to me is the ferris wheel shot seems to be taken at a slight upward angle. To me it seems that the only thing you would see at that angle is the dome light. Are there any cars with dome lights that look like that?

I'm not sure I buy the dome light though. It really looks like a gauge. But the color matches the illuminated cup holders someone showed earlier. Curse you, The SUN. Why am I wasting what few brain cells I have left on this?

EDIT: Hmm, just noticed that you can see the hood or bonnet of the car. Didn't notice that before either.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 05-March-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt-3d View Post
I took a fresh look at it today, before the coffee had a chance to work it's sweet, sweet magic. The first thing that came to me is the ferris wheel shot seems to be taken at a slight upward angle. To me it seems that the only thing you would see at that angle is the dome light. Are there any cars with dome lights that look like that?
While the angle might be upward, the slope of the windshield* angles downward. I'm happy enough to leave it at a dial or gauge in the center console (I like my A/C dial guess, but frankly I'm biased in that I always like my ideas best until proven wrong).


*(I still refuse to call it a windscreen...screens are wire mesh, dagnabbit! )
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Old 05-March-2008, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt-3d
EDIT: Hmm, just noticed that you can see the hood or bonnet of the car. Didn't notice that before either.
actually it is the convex of the dash cover and a wiper blade you can see
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Old 05-March-2008, 09:42 PM
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The problem with an object located on the dashboard is that its reflection in the windshield would be low in the windshield, and therefore photographs that show the object with considerable footroom left in the photo frame would also then have to show the lower edge of the windshield. Only by placing the object farther toward the rear do you get a reflection high enough up on the glass to allow for the two photographs we see.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 05-March-2008, 09:57 PM
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I think this episode serves as a succinct lesson of how credulous people can be. However, it also serves to highlight another important fact about how the eye and brain works. If we choose to accept that the photographer is not perpetrating a hoax, then we have to accept that this "object" was not visible when taking the picture. I would suggest that the reason it was not visible, is simply that the eye and brain was doing its job by filtering out superfluous information. When driving a car, you look through a windscreen, not at it. Any miscellaneous reflections are not consciously taken into account. This person was apparently not only driving but also using a cellphone to take pictures of the London scenery (well done there, for not killing someone). In those circumstances, I would suggest that the reflection of a real tiny luminous alien creature on the dash would have been ignored, too.
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Old 05-March-2008, 10:19 PM
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I would suggest that the reason it was not visible, is simply that the eye and brain was doing its job by filtering out superfluous information.

Yes; and the difference between trained and experienced photographic interpretation and amateur, self-appointed photographic interpretation is that the former knows to take such things into account, and knows enough about them to ascertain their likely effects on the interpretation of the image.

This person was apparently not only driving...

Not from that side of an English car.
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Old 05-March-2008, 11:01 PM
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 05-March-2008, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
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actually it is the convex of the dash cover and a wiper blade you can see
That's the shiniest wiper blade I've ever seen then. Ya'll must really like shiny cars to wax the wipers.

I call on all our UK cousins to plunge into research of this phenomona. I recommend that you head out each night and jump into random cars while they are stopped at red lights and look for a reflection similar to this. Extra credit for photographs. And continue until we have a definate source for this reflection or until you are all arrested.
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Old 05-March-2008, 11:28 PM
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I started looking and there are a few makes of the smaller cars with a dash thingy. Thingy being a clock (clock as in instrument of somesort whatever it is meant for) in the dash. Then the dog with the bone set in.
Agree it looks like a wiper blade in the pic.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 05-March-2008, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The problem with an object located on the dashboard is that its reflection in the windshield would be low in the windshield, and therefore photographs that show the object with considerable footroom left in the photo frame would also then have to show the lower edge of the windshield. Only by placing the object farther toward the rear do you get a reflection high enough up on the glass to allow for the two photographs we see.
That really does depend on the angle of the windshield, and how far forward you lean to take the photo. By placing a marker on my dashboard I could get a range of apparent heights by leaning backward and forward in the passenger seat, including one which was at a similar height to the image in the photos.
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Old 06-March-2008, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
This person was apparently not only driving...
Not from that side of an English car.
That's interesting. I'm English and we also drive on the left (right side of the car) in New Zealand.
I had automatically assumed that the steering wheel visible at the bottom of the picture was due to the driver taking the picture. I envisioned the driver holding the phonecam in the left hand at about head height. That would also go some way to explaining position of the reflection.

Whatever the details, its true nature is obvious, so the alleged baffled "experts" must be particularly prone to confusion.
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Old 06-March-2008, 01:34 AM
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I envisioned the driver holding the phonecam in the left hand at about head height. That would also go some way to explaining position of the reflection.
Could she be the rear seat passenger directly behind the driver? The article states there were three in the car and she wasn't the driver.
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Old 06-March-2008, 01:52 AM
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Could she be the rear seat passenger directly behind the driver? The article states there were three in the car and she wasn't the driver.
Could be but I was just making an arbitrary assumption, so no surprises that I'm wrong. I still reckon that's the steering wheel at the bottom of the picture, though Chrissy thinks otherwise. To me, the ridges of the wheel grip are also clearly visible.
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Old 06-March-2008, 04:48 AM
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