There is substantive proof of a long history of weather modification, and climatic control, as well as chemtrail spraying in order to effect weather and climatic control..

In 1986 Crispen Tickell (a high level atmospheric scientist / administrator) wrote the following in his paper "Climatic Change and World Affairs." which is online at :

"The first would be designed to cover all major experiments by governments (or those for whom they were responsible) which were intended to test the behaviour of the climate or which might inadvertently do so. There would be obvious problems over the definition of what should count as a major experiment. This difficulty arose in the negotiation of the Convention on the Prohibition of Military or any other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques of 1977: how should we interpret "... environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects ..."?

http://www.crispintickell.com/page77.html

It is important to note if you actually look up the Convention on the Prohibition of Military and any other hostile Use of Environmental Modification Technique (a UN Paper) - it will state right in the framework agreement that weather modification is permitted (as long as it is for peaceful purposes).

http://www.opcw.org/html/db/cwc/more/enmod.html

Crispin if you actuall take the time to read his 'call for action' you will quckly see a number of high level weather modification experiments that have been conducted in the past - he specifically mentions the following..

"Examples of activities which should come within this category are experiments in rainmaking and control of hail storms over a defined area; attempts to disperse hurricanes and typhoons; systematic towing of icebergs away from polar waters to supply fresh water to arid regions; and putting certain objects into space (such as the needles placed in orbit by the United States several years ago against protests from many scientists). Some such experiments might be of scientific value and economic benefit, and might deserve full international encouragement and support. The purpose of an agreement would not be to frustrate them, but simply to ensure that their implications were properly considered and understood in time. "

Think about what you just read,

1. Examples of activities (weather modification) were listed as follows.
- Towing Iceburgs
- Water diversion
- Cloud Seeding to trigger rain or control of hail storms
- NEEDLES PLACED IN ORBIT.

Hold on here, did you just read that correctly, he is talking about orbital satellites that can effect weather modification, and that many scientists were highly opposed to this. What is this 'needles placed in orbit' bit - by the US (probably the military)

You see the information is all there, just go to the top of our scientific circles and read what they wrote.

US Militarys Plan for Total Weather Dominance.

Barnes, a consultant on the Air Force study, calmly outlined the history of the U.S. military’s weather modification programs and what would be needed for future fully-integrated weather modification capabilities. The good doctor referenced the document "Spacecast 2020," later updated in "Weather As A Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025," which noted that "Atmospheric scientists have pursued terrestrial weather modification in earnest since the 1940’s. . . . Space presents us with a new arena, technology provides new opportunities. . . "

While Spacecast 2020 had analyzed "the difficulty, cost and risk of developing a weather control system for military applications" as "extremely high," Barnes offered a different perspective. He saw "opportunities to capitalize on investment militarily [as] Medium/High" while the "Political implications/health hazards [were] Medium/Low."

http://www.willthomas.net/chemtrails...er_Warfare.htm

in 2007 it got better a secretive bill was passed establishing a 11 member panel - and the Bill was stated as follows "“Weather Mitigation Research and Development Policy Authorization Act of 2007”

Here are some details of it : bills were not referred to Committees on Agriculture, Natural Resources, the Environmental Protection Agency, or Forestry, and that you were not invited to debate the merits of these bills by your elected representatives.

“It is the purpose of this act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather mitigation policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather mitigation and research.”

http://www.newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalind8.htm

Did you read the other threads about chemtrails here?

Not many...... BTW some of the OP links are also previously discussed.
http://www.bautforum.com/general-sci...hemtrails.html
Conclusive proof of chemtrails!
Return to chemtrails
Does this make sense to you...Barium in contrails=chemtrails
Of course Chem Trails are Woo Woo...
New article linking NASA to Chemtrails
NASA and Chemtrails
More "Chemtrails"
Chemtrails, shemtrails......
Chemtrails + Planet X
CHEMTRAILS PREDICTION
Chemtrails or Contrails?
Help me debunk the CHEMTRAILS belivers...!!!!

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Spammed verbatim from to at least a couple of other boards, such as this one.

I haven't the faintest idea what is meant by "needles in space". You'll have to be more specific. Nor does "needles in space" equate to "orbital satellites that can effect weather modification".

In fact, there is not a shred of evidence for any satellites that can effect any kind of weather modification. Would you like to provide some? Would you like to even propose a mechanism by which such modification could be effected?

Your larger problem, though, is that really nothing you talked about is a "chemtrail". The closest you got is cloud-seeding, which is of dubious effectiveness but is nothing like the popular notion of "chemtrails".

Oh, and finally,
in 2007 it got better a secretive bill was passed establishing a 11 member panel - and the Bill was stated as follows "“Weather Mitigation Research and Development Policy Authorization Act of 2007”

Yes, it's very secretive indeed. I mean, I had to go to a government website and type the number of the bill (S. 1807) in and everything. Real National Treasure stuff.

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"Slapping a guy on the head is just as funny now as it was eighty years ago."

It's not "needles in space" it's Space Needles... everyone in Seattle knows that they cause rain.

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A. Elk (Miss)

Well, FWIW airplanes have been spewing chemicals into the upper atmosphere for decades. The important points are (a) it's not intentional except inasmuch as it has to be that way in order for the planes to fly, and (b) the chemicals are largely water, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and other products of the combustion of jet fuel.

This does does have an effect on the weather -- remember the three no-fly days after the WTC was destroyed? -- but again there was/is no sinister conspiracy trying to change the weather.

Fred

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I've noticed this happening fairly often recently...first post, copied and pasted, no questions to answer...etc

Pete

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PJE

There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.

You tell me go read the quote what is the guy talking about? His words were 'put in orbit' and 'highly opposed by scientists.' in the same paragraph as he was talking about weather expermentation and weather control attempts.

"Needles in space" derives from a typo that occurred when a recurring Muppet Show feature was translated from the German "Schweine im Weltraum" as "Pins in Space", which was subsequently translated into Spanish as "agujas en espacio" and then translated back into English as "needles in space".

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Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought 'proof' meant 'incontrovertible evidence' - not 'speculative misinterpretation of unrelated information'!

I must buy these chemtrailers a dictionary some day!

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Andy

Manager Ukweatherworld

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Forming opinions as we speak

Perhaps an unwritten rule would be to ignore any such post. Although I know some people will respond anyways.

I have now become very suspicious of a first time poster who posts a well worded post with lots of "points" rather than a "hello" or a question

Pete

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PJE

There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.

Would it be possible to SLIME somebody from a satellite, like they joked about at Kids Choice Awards 1?

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I seriously doubt if we hear from Summerops77 again. If we do, it will probably be just links to more "proof"......

tbm

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I can't comment on the way they portrayed it, but I'd imagine that released slime, in its long fall, might break up and behave much like droplets of rain -- if it didn't just remain a large frozen chunk. It would probably be very hard to aim precisely, like the Huygens probe, because of the vagaries of ATM theories of weird gravity effects -- no, wait... that's postulated but unsupported nonsense -- I mean the vagaries of atmosphere entry interface and travel thorough turbulent gas of varying densities.

Maybe you could keep the slime inside a steerable, smart container, to be released when it is close to and precisely positioned toward the target.

I think I might be concern about the budget for this project. It might not have a very good cost/benefit.

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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

I seriously doubt if we hear from Summerops77 again. If we do, it will probably be just links to more "proof"......

tbm

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Paddle faster!! I hear banjo music!!

This would be a reference to project West Ford otherwise known as the needles experiment, a project of considerable notority at the time (1961-1963)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_West_Ford and a good example of inadvisable satellite technology.

Unadvisiable it may have been, but it was nothing to do with weather modication but was a communications experiment.

Jon

I wasn't actually going to slime anybody, I was just curious.

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I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

You tell me go read the quote what is the guy talking about?

Why are you spamming this board with big claims about weather modification if you literally don't know what you're talking about? You shouted NEEDLES IN ORBIT. You need to explain what it means.

His words were 'put in orbit' and 'highly opposed by scientists.' in the same paragraph as he was talking about weather expermentation and weather control attempts.

JonClarke (thanks, Jon) explained what it was apparently about in this post. If that's the case, it was a communications experiment decades ago, and had nothing to do with and no effect on weather.

I must also point out that you have not answered any of the criticisms in my previous post.

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"Slapping a guy on the head is just as funny now as it was eighty years ago."

Well, the Needles are in orbit for the Space Junkies.

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Would that be addicts in space, or people on Earth who are addicted to space?

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

Could I get an injection of space please?

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Has anybody here thought about copying the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field picture into a "Ribbon Bumper Sticker" format? We could stick it on our cars to premote "Space Awareness".

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

Major Tom?

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"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

Yup, just another western space opera shoot-em-up!

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Was it junkies? Did some terrifying space junkies maybe get loose?
[/Firefly reference]

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Relight the Firefly!

"It is quite clear that Occam's razor does not sharpen in your pyramid." (Nicolas)

"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (Paul Simon)

This is not "I believe in satellites controlling weather" question. But given the energy contained in the various systems (not sure of the correct wording here), how much could a satellite affect the weather? Given the size of a satellite and power it has available would I be right in saying "no effect whatsoever".

If it was to drop a payload to try to affect the weather then that payload will need a propulsion to slow its orbit for re entry and what ever protection for its speed of re entry. That adds weight. Makes more of an issue for the size etc.

Just thinking aloud about my doubts of claims of any interference and why.

From the woo-woo ramblings I've read, it doesn't sound like there's an expected payload of weather modifying materials. The consensus is that the satellites use directed energy of some form to influence/interrupt the natural convection in the atmosphere and possibly to bring about some new chemical properties that may strengthen the event. I'm wholly uneducated in the field of meteorology though, so I couldn't even begin to understand if any of it would be possible under any circumstances.

It's nothing shown in the OP or this thread either, but I also read on another forum that large solar arrays for power generation are a government conspiracy to control the weather. I guess the theory here is that the large amount of reflected light and heat energy could cause new atmospheric flow patterns to emerge. The theory doesn't sound too far fetched, but I don't quite see it as a gubment conspiracy.

I don't know the answer, but my gut agrees with yours, that we can't generate enough energy to have a significant effect. Look at humans "best" method for putting a lot of energy into a small volume of the atmospher - a nuclear explosion. Is there any evidence that an above-ground blast had any effect on the weather, other than a temporary and localized blast wave?

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All moderation in purple

Stop.

As a former military and current civilian pilot the chemtrail myth has been busted, busted again, bust a third time, a 9,374th time, and I'm sick of hearing loonie carpenters claiming to be "experts" on a phenomena called "contrails" (not chemtrails) which date back to well before the first breath was uttered in cold air.

Try that the next time you're up North during winter. Breath out. Chemtrail?

No.

Condensation.

Contrail.

Not "chemtrail."

Of all the gullible...

As for satellites ever being able to have the slightest effect on weather...

Possible?

Yes, given an extremely large farm of microwave satellites.

However, unless the 200+ countries capable of detecting such a farm have somehow managed to keep a vast conspiracy on this topic incredibly quiet...

Bunk.

Again, of all the gullible...

Don't even get me started. Do something more useful with your time and your life, such as keeping fish.

At least it's more restful than your getting needlessly spun up about "chem"trails and mythical satellite-based Wx modification...

Or for me to get spun up countering unsubstantiated arguements.

Time for me to go water my plants...

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If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.