The discovery of Sagittarius A, the massive black hole believed to be the starting point of the milky way, has brought new issues of planetary alignment and polar shift into question. I saw on the History channel the other day that a planetary alignment will happen in 2012 that occurs only once every 26,500 years. The earth, sun and Sagittarius A will be aligned in such a way that the gravitational pull on Earth will be at a maximum. Several scientists believe a sudden polar shift is possible. Others believe Earth's mantle is even now shifting and will continue to shift at a faster pace. They cite the increase in natural disasters as evidence and predict even worse disasters leading up to the alignment at which time the Earth's mantle will complete its adjustment to the new axis. These scientists also claim to have evidence that the earth has experienced polar shift in the past (large forests buried under ice caps, etc). I didn't catch the name of the show and have been searching since to find more information.

What I did find out in my research is that the NOAA is struggling at the moment to declare the start of Solar Cycle 24 which was slated to begin in mid 2007 but now is pushed into 2009 making it the longest lull between solar cycles in recorded history. This has split the panel on future predictions with some expecting a very light SC24 and others expecting an extremely active one. Both sides agree however that the delay of SC24 is alarming and signals change.

With the alignment only a few years away I'm wondering why it's not getting more press or more scientific attention. Has anyone heard anything about this? Is polar shift happening or not? If it was would the goverment suppress this information? Please post.

Thank you,

Frenchman9012

Try searching this forum for "pole shift" and/or "2012." You'll find some rational scientific discussion of the theories.

No scientist worth the name believes a word of that. None. I challenge you to find me one.

At a great enough distance, a black hole has absolutely no more gravitational effect than the equivalent mass in star-matter (or marshmallows, for that matter.) So the effect of Sagittarius A on Earth's alignment will be slightly less than the effect I would have if I braced my feet against bedrock and blew really hard.

Planetary alignments also mean sod-all in terms of "pole shift". Even if all the planets, asteroids, plutoids and comets of the entire solar system were to align, the gravity of the Sun would still dominate any activity by dozens of orders of magnitude. Once again, if I braced myself and sneezed hard, I'd have more effect on the Earth.

There is no increase in the rate of natural disasters. More people are being affected by disasters now, because there simply are more people on the planet, and they are more widely spread out. So more people will happen to be sitting at the site of a disaster when it happens.

And there are some very good, non-cataclysmic explanations for misplaced forests and ice-caps. Like plate techtonics, for example.

I don't know enough about solar weather patterns to know if anything strange is happening, or if this is just exaggeration. But even if something is wrong with the predictions made about a notoriously complex system, is there even a hint of any evidence that it has anything at all to do with this "alignment"?

So no, there will be no pole shift (unless a bunch of Polish change their voting patterns in 2012. That's one kind of Pole Shift.) (Stop him, stop him now, before he puns again!)

So there is no press or scientific attention being paid, because there is nothing to pay attention to. Nothing. Nada. Bupkis.

And finally: No, governments would not try to supress this, even if they could. What would be the point? So what if billions of people got killed in riots? Every last human on Earth would be dead by 2012 anyway!!! The "increase in disasters" some forsee would be way beyond anything you can imagine. For something as huge as a "pole shift" to happen in the few years between now and 2012, the energies involved would be stupendous. Life itself would be lucky to survive them. Puny humans would be squished like tomatos under a rock-slide.

So it's just as well it ain't gonna happen, innit?

Just to add to what Stuart said, the galactic center is so far away, and the motion of our solar system relatively small, that the difference in "alignment" between 2008 and 2012 is absolutely insignificant.

By the way Frenchman9012, welcome to BAUT. You might want to read the rules and the FAQs of this forum, particularly as they apply to Conspiracy Therories.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Have we? We have!

Oh, let me help. Here's some of the topics that have discussed predictions for the year 2012 in BAUT Forum as well as some related articles:

1. 2003 no, 2012 si
2. 2012
3. End of Mayan Calendar
4. Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012?
5. 2012 alignment question
6. about the Mayan 2012 item
7. 2012 Debunking?
8. Possible asteroid impact in 2012?
9. 2012 asteroid?
10. We don't have to worry about 2012!
11. More on 2012 from India Daily
12. 2012 Completion of conspiracy?
13. Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012...
14. crop circles, Planet X and 2012
15. Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma
16. According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012?
17. More 2012 Nonsense
18. NEO 2012?
19. Dangerous NEO in 2012?
20. Christmas 2012
21. 2012 mayan calender end of world
22. Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012
23. New 2012 threat?
24. 2012 look at this thing on the sun
25. Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012
26. Pole shift idea origins
27. Dec 20 2012
28. 2012 Stuff
29. Horizon Project-New End of World Scare?
30. Date: December 21st 2012
31. Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen?
32. 2012: What do you think well happen (if anything)
33. So what will we see in 2012?
34. Galactic Tsunami?
35. Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy?
36. Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012
37. 2012?
38. Any truth to this?
39. How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre?
40. the whole 2012 poles flip nonsense
41. Planet X Official Advertisement
42. What year are we in
43. Quick question about the sun
44. Galactic Alignment
45. Books of 2012! -
46. 2007 = 2012
47. Return of Planet X By Rand
48. Don Alejandro - Mayan Elder.
49. Toutatis 4179: 2012?
50. Galactic Alignment in 2012 ?
51. Solar Storms
52. A real prediction!
53. NIBURU - Brown Dwarf, The DESTROYER
54. 2012 Galactic Alignment
55. Not 2012 again! But I cant help it~
56. New evidence for 2012 TEOTWAWKI!!!
57. this may be a silly question but...
58. Just to know if this is true
59. Just Wondering...
60. Planet X/Nibiru, is it real?
61. Youv heard this a million times.
62. Nibaru or Planet X
63. Mayan calendar
64. 2012 Article?
65. can i say something please on planet x
66. Nibiru
67. The growing earth.... :P
68. Our Solar System's Eclipse of the Galactic Plane on Dec 21, 2012?
69. Something scaring the hell out of me....
70. Its Only the end of the World AGAIN!!! (Woo Woo Alert)
71. 2021 Doomsday
72. is it just me or is the milky way brighter..?
73. Polar Shift in 2012?

Universe Today: No Doomsday in 2012
Bad Astronomy Blog: 2012, the year nothing will happen
Universe Today: 2012: No Planet X
Universe Today: 2012: Planet X is not Nibiru
Universe Today: 2012: No Killer Solar Flare

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Thank you all for the replies, especially the links. I will have some fantastic reading to do. :-) I wasn't sure which forum to post this in. I apologize if I have voilated the forum rules. I will get it all figured out soon. Thank you for the welcome aboard. This site seems fascinating. I look forward to participating.

Frenchman9012

Frenchman9012,

Since 78 links is a lot go through, you might start with the first non-numbered Universe Today post (towards the bottom of the list) as a good place to start.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

|You live for this. lol!

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All Moderation in Purple
To report a post (even this one) to the moderation team, click the reporting icon in the upper-right corner of the post:
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01101001

What can I say?

Your lists are so good I regularly follow them myself and recommend them to others.

Good reading. Good job.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

wait. .hold on.. i thought the increase in natural disasters was happening becasue i sometimes don't shut of the light when i leave a room and i drive a gas guzzling 34 year old car..
now i'm confused..

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"blacker than the blackest black... times infinity."- Nathan Explosion
The.. Best.. Thread..Ever...

Not one bloody week...

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

This isn't another Nibiru thing is it :|

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The Cartographer

Nibiru is real! The evidence is all around us! Especially on this site!

Nibiru is the name of an electronic pseudo-virus that induces symptoms of credulity, diminished capability of rational thought, and a pathological urge to relate one's delusions to as many people as possible.

Of course it is true and the government is suppressing it.

Covering their interstellar travel with the TV-show "Stargate" worked well, but they made a book this time.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...283155&s=books

It's obviously a ploy 2 discredit anyone who want's to expose the TRUTH.

We know you're joking, ineluki, but what if Frenchman9012 doesn't?

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

Welcome to the discussion group, Frenchman9012.

The History Channel used to provide a marvelous educational service. More recently they realized that if they were going to stay in business, they had to keep ratings up to encourage advertisers to give them money. That meant playing to a large audience of credulous woos and conspiracy theorists, and setting aside the standards of evidence demanded by more sophisticated viewers. So a cable channel that was once at the level of Scientific American has been descending to that of the National Enquirer. Don’t believe everything you see or hear in the media. Sensationalism rules nowadays. You are wise to have come here to discuss what you heard with clear thinking individuals. I hope you remain here for a long time.

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Curt Renz - "Centaur"
For monthly astronomical calendar visit:
www.CurtRenz.com/astronomical

Pole reversals do occur, don't they, at something like 700,000-year intervals? The evidence is magnetic patterns in rocks. They happen gradually and would not necessarily be devastating. Pardon the off-the-cuff reply, I'm supposed to be working. Anybody have a factual summary?

Here is a good NASA site on pole shifts.

And this is a good site from the Geological Survey of Canada

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

The Earth’s magnetic poles do switch places in cycles similar to the timeframe you described. The rotational poles do not reverse, although they do wobble about one degree in either direction within a cycle of about 40,000 years.

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Curt Renz - "Centaur"
For monthly astronomical calendar visit:
www.CurtRenz.com/astronomical

Of course, you guys are referring to magnetic pole reversals.

I don't believe there is any evidence of past reversals of the spin axis of the Earth.

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I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. -- Jimmy Hoffa

It really is quite an important point. I often get the feeling that people who worry about "pole reversals" have a sort of fundamental misunderstanding about the earth's position. I think that many people (I guess it's fairly natural to do this) mistakenly use the analogy of the earth being like a top spinning. And we all know from experience that a top can suddenly flip on its axis, so I think that they assume that this is possible. While of course it isn't, because the top only does that because it is being pulled down by gravity but is resting on the surface of a table or something. Whereas the earth is just floating in space. It might be nice to have an explanation of this somewhere.

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As above, so below

Axial tilt (obliquity) and precession are two of the most misunderstood aspects of earth's movements, and so they are exploited by journalists and pseudo-scientists/book writers. I am amazed on other boards how these topics are being used to promote catastrophism; species extinction; binary sun theories; ancient, advanced civilizations and even alien visitation scenarios.

To paraphrase Homer Simpson, "2012, is there nothing it can't do?"

On a winter evening as the wood crackles in the fireplace an elderly gentleman sits sipping his coffee while watching the fire.

A child bursts through the door crying and runs up to the man.

“Grandpa, Grandpa, Bobby down the street says we are all going to die because the planets are going to align and we are all going to turn upside down and there will be great earthquakes and fires.. and we’re going to die!”, Timmy exclaimed.

“No, no, no, it’s not true.” the man calmly states as he reaches out and comforts the child with a hug.

“Why does Bobby say those things Grandpa?”

“People hear stories and they do not always have the all the things they need to know to be able to understand them”.

“Like what Grandpa?”

“Well, it all started way back in April of 1950, long before you were born. There was this man who was a scholar of ancient writings but he wasn’t an astronomer, a scientist who studies stars. But, he saw in the ancient writings what he thought were stories a great goings on in the skies that caused horror and death on Earth and that these things were other planets coming close to Earth. Of course that is not possible and the scientists have shown that to be the case.”

“Who was this man Grandpa?”

His name was Immanuel……

(voice trails off as camera pans back through the window and up above the house showing a snow covered roof and smoke coming from the chimney)

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(By the way, I hate it that so many papers in the areas of planetary science and geology are not easily available to the dreaded "non-subscribers". It is like they are screaming at me: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH". Good, I feel better now.)

"Quaerendo inventis"

Episodes of apparent rapid continental movement in among other periods the Early Cambrian have been suggested to be due to 90^o shifts in the Earth's spin axis. I'm in no position to evaluate the evidence but googling for "inertial interchange true polar wander" returns a variety of papers on the subject.

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Science is like sex. Sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.
-- Richard Feynman

A woo is about half a woo woo. Unfortunately I carry that name. Kind of like Spock on Star Trek but without the logic or ears. To be half a woo you have to be able to ignore some of the facts and make assumptions on occasion without proof. When challenged a woo woo will make a lot of noise and babble until everybody is confused and then claim victory. A woo when challenged will actually concede when presented with logical explanations but will still keep saying, "what if". This of course is my own take on things so take what you can from it--joe

I have seen no etymological evidence for a difference between a "woo" and a "woo-woo." The former is the shorthand for the latter, that's all.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Be that as it may, I, for one, do not consider you either a "woo" or a "woo woo" joe...

Thanks pal--joe

Dah--made it up--wasn't serious . . . but thanks for the lesson teach--j