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We all heard about 2012.
So many Explanations and Stories. I've heard stories about aliens, about astrology, about changing the rhythm of time, Heaven on Earth, energies, other dimensions, bad-stuff-happening, galactic-astrological-synchronizations, changes in calenders, parties, and so many contradicting, not-really-scientific, not-always-rational data. I seek to explain the phenomenon, without stubborn rhetoric, without any vague concepts, and without any energy / aliens / dimensional / other-unproven-data (or at least considered unproven). Having said that, I'll try to explain the 2012 phenomenon, or the phenomenon of 2012 obsession. 1. My first argument: Numbers affect people. People are charmed, for example, by certain numbers, and are afraid, from other numbers, for a variety of reasons. I don't claim everyone is charmed and afraid by numbers, but enough people do, so in the global-scale, number do affect people, not necessarily in the same manner. (The number X can charm one person, deter another, and not affect another two people, in a group of 4, for example). I find it easy to be charmed by 12.21.2012 or 13.0.0.0.0 of the Mayan calender, And I am charmed by the fact they are both the same day. But I would like to focus more on dates and numbers that make people fear. Some dates frighten some of us: 9.11.2001 or 9.1.1939 Some numbers that might frighten a Christian: 666 13 Or Jews: 6,000,000 2. My second argument: The 9 - 11 combination is problematic enough in order to become a date of destruction. (Sounds strange, but read it through). I don't ask here to explain this, just to show this, but I'll try to give an explanation nonetheless. One possible explanation, is the common characteristic of 9 and 11. They are both very close to 10, and this is what is common, and so their combination emphasizes this. 10 is a very special number for the human psyche, and usually symbolizes wholeness and completeness and perfection, not for a mystical, or a numerological, or a really-stupid reason, but because we have 10 fingers, and they are the base of our counting system, and 10 symbolizes the completeness of the counting, the 10 fingers, and the 10 digits. Those of us who look for grades will see a perfection in 10, since it is the perfect grade. Those of us who look for completeness in sexuality, and in the merging of the opposites, will also see in 10 completeness, as 1 is the male organ, 0 is the female organ, and 10 is their combination in one complete whole perfect unity. Those of us with religious upbringing can see 10 in the 10 commandments and other important symbols. Symbolic connections between 9 and 11, are exactly what moves away from that wholeness, and emphasizes the distinction from wholeness. You might think I'm only talking about the WTC 9/11 case, but you'll understand soon. I don't think there has to be a cosmic force to make more destructions on dates with 9 and 11, but somehow this combination affects enough people for us to have more on such dates. Maybe the explanation I gave for why this could happen doesn't convince, but this is not the point, the point is that it is like that, statistically, as we'll see in some detailed examples. For simplicity, I'll use both the European style of writing dates - day.month.year - E - and the North-American style - month.day.year - U. You might think that finding 9's and 11's in the 20th century is not so hard, but remember, the 20th century was the most bloody of them all, which strengthens my theory. Do you see any combinations between 9 and 11 in the following dates ? (remember the mind reads digits one by one...) WTC destruction: 9.11.2001 U Crystal night, first major violent breakout before the holocaust, became a memory of a day of destruction: 9.11.1938 E WW2: 9.1.1939 U Murder of Kennedy: 22.11.1963 E Murder of Gandhi: 30.1.1938 E Murder of Israel's prime minster, Rabin: 4.11.1995 E Gulf War: 1.15.1991 U 15.1.1991 E And there's more, but I think the list is enough. Anyone who disagrees, and thinks I'm not convincing enough, is welcome to present another pair of numbers, whose combination appears in so many dates that became memories of destruction, and I think it is fair to request that at least one of the numbers in the pair will be a 2-digit-number. (Don't tell me 1 and 9, OK ?) I don't think, and I don't claim, that this is total. You have many dates with 9 and 11 without any problem, and you also have destructions in other dates, but this is still a statistical abnormality. I'll soon show how the 9-11 combination became a destruction-date in more than the Western calender to prove my point. Before that, I'd like to talk a little about the American emergency phone number 911 We usually think of it as dial nine-one-one But originally it was promoted as dial nine-eleven. A lot of people complained "they can't find the eleven" so they changed the way they say it. So originally the 9-11 combination also appeared in emergency cases. And when do you call ? When you are more away from the feeling or delusion that everything is complete and perfect. So once again, the 9-11 combination is connected in many persons' minds with "something bad is happening". You can also see something interesting with Roman numerations. 9 - IX 11 - XI Again showing that the human mind sees them as "one away from 10", while X is the most symmetric of all the Roman numerals (both top-bottom and right-left symmetries, and 90 degrees rotation symmetry if it's a "perfect" X.), and it's the only letter used (I,V,X,L,C,D,M) that you can't write in one time without lifting the pen or going over the same line twice, making it more "special" for the mind, two symmetrical lines meeting each other in the middle. Now I'll move to another calender: The Hebrew Year of Judaism. One of the oldest calenders still in use. It goes both by the sun and by the moon. Unlike other calenders and traditions, the Jews somehow combined all their major destruction stories, to one date that symbolizes destruction The Ninth of AV. While AV is the 11th month of the Hebrew year. (The Hebrew calender / calenders have several new-years, but the most common, and the only one used until today, is the one who starts the year with a holiday called "The head of the year", in which the digit of the years increases by one, and is in a month (always a new-moon day) who is always 2 months after AV, and basically 10 months before AV, making AV the 11th month, in a 12 months year, eventually making the 9th of AV, as the 9th of the 11th Month.) This is a list of destructions that are associated with that date,some of them are made so by formal Jewish religious law,some are historically documented, some are of an unknown enough source, and even if some of it is made up (by others of course, not by me), it still shows that there's a tendency of the mind to connect destructions with 9-11-combination-dates: The fall of the first temple. (this in the bible appears in 2 places, one as 7th of AV, the other as 10th of AV, but formal Judaism is considering it as 9th of Av, and this is the official day of fasting and mourning about it, which is also obligatory, for religious Jews). The fall of the second temple. Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans Expulsion of Jews from Spain 1942 (A major event in Jewish history, highly documented). Roman Jews are put in ghettos in Rome. 1555 Expulsion from England and in another year, from France. First World War 1914 (Calculated by the date Germany declared war on Russia, and it became a world war, WW1). So what do we see ? Nowadays, the 9-11 combination has become a date that symbolizes destruction in more than one calender. (There's more symmetry between the 9-11's of the Western and Hebrew calenders main destruction date - the fall of The Temple,and the fall of The Towers. Both in a mythological city - Jerusalem is the most mythological city for the Jewish people, and NYC is deeply connected to the American Dream, with its Statue of Liberty, welcoming the immigrants, as well as possessing other American-Dream-Symbols, and both destructions are on a 9-11 date in the year). I can't be sure you're convinced why this is happening. But it does. Even if some of those destructions, or those dates, are pure accidents, it causes more fear of those dates eventually. And again, I'm not saying all destructions are on those dates. I don't know the dates of the atomic bombing of Japan in the Japanese calender, but I believe there's enough data to see that something is going on. And this finally concludes the second argument. 3. My third argument: Starting from 2012, we have much less dates with 9-11 combinations in the Western calender, (which is the most important and globally used calender). In the 20th century, we had the most dates with such a combination. In the beginning of the 21st, we have a little less. Ever since 2012, the years don't give us any 11 at all, and we got a 9 in the years only once every 10 years, and in the 2090s which result in 19 years with a 9 in the year, in all the century, compared to 100 years with a 9, in the 20th century. So: I. If a combination between a 9 and an 11 causes destruction, then we'll have less destructions. II. If such a combination makes people afraid, then we have less reasons to fear. III. If you think such dates don't mean anything at all, then it wouldn't get any worse, not because of this anyway. IV. If enough extreme people go crazy especially on such dates, then they have less reasons to go crazy. 4. My fourth argument: All the spiritual, cultural, pseudo-scientific interest around the change of 2012, is because of the 9-11 symbolism I showed. Check out the date given to mark the change: 12.21.2012 U 21.12.2012 E The year: 2012 Right after 2011, and shortly after 2009, just as they disappear from the digits of the years. The Month: December The 12th month, right after the 11th month and shortly after September, just as they disappear from the digits of the months. The day 21 Not one digit like a 9 Not 1X like an 11 not 20 like 9 + 11 The 21st day of the 12th month of the only year with a 12 in its digits, in the 21st Century. So much charm, so much completeness, and wholeness, and symmetry, and even perfection. you got the 1 and 0 of the 10, next to each other. you got nothing to remind of the "away from completeness" in this date. Nothing to remind you of the 9-11 combinations. no 9 12 and 21 right before 2013 and right before Christmas (never 9 or 11 on Christmas in the day.month duo) or 13.0.0.0.0 you got 12, 13, and 21, all can be seen as "going away from 11". This is truly a nice charming date which symbolizes a drastic change from a period we had many 9-11 combinations in the Western calender, to a period with much much less. One of the things 2012 theorists talk about, is the subject of time, and the change of time, and the change of the perception of time. They all fail to understand that what will really happen, is that as far as dates go, time will affect us differently. This is the expected change in our "connection with time". Time will be much less frightening and much less dangerous. One last thing. If somehow I gave you a reason to think the coming 2009 and 2011 will be horrible, this is not necessarily what I think. 1909 and 1911 were not so nice as years, but certainly not the worst of the 20th century. (We had more 9-11 combos in any year of the 20th century than is expected in 2009 and 2011) And even so, by 2013 it will be behind us. I'd be more than happy to get interesting remarks, as long as they are to the point, about my theory. (please don't analyze my signature in your replies) BLUE ELECTRIC MONKEY Some more calculations for those interested: I defined a "charming date" as a date made of only 3 digits (or less). Like: 1.1.2000 1.2.2000 2.2.2000 (two digits) and many more in 2000 and also so much many in 2001-2012 like X.X.200X 10.10.2010 11.11.2011 12.12.2012 you got here 13 years with a lot of "charming dates", and even 13 years in a row, with a date in each year, with a certain number, that appears both in the day, in the month, in the year, and in a "charming date". Now what happens in 2010-2012 ? All "charming dates" in these 3 years, are with the same 3 digits: 0,1,2 Actually, we get 120 "charming dates" in these years, all with the same 3 digits, and with no other "charming date" in the middle which is made of a different combination of 3 digits. (If you can't see why this doesn't happen in 2000-2002, or in 2020-2022, think of 3.3.2000 or 4.4.2022.) All this period of 2000-2012, is with the most charm in numbers possible since we started counting. 2100-2102 is the only next time in the coming millennium with 120 "charming dates in a row all from the same 3 digits". (you need 3 years in a row, all with the same 3 digits that you are talking about, and all 3 digits appearing in all 3 years) And when does the charm "end" this time ? 22.12.2012 This is the last of those 120 "charming dates". Right next to the famous 21.12.2012 to whom the change of time is usually attributed. After that, not only will time frighten us less, it will also charm us less, making us over all less affected by time, and more "free" from it. I also guess, that all this 2012 obsession nowadays, is strongly connected to the fact that "This is the time that dates have charmed us more than ever before". And after 2012, these kind of obsessions will cool down, as Time charms us less and less, or frighten us with a 9-11 combo, less and less. I always considered 21.12.2012 to be such a beautiful date, but now it seems to me more as a beautiful period of time. So many dates, in 3 years, all with same digits of the 21.12.2012. And in 2013, the process is over. 2013 might appeal to the eye, consisting of 0,1,2,3 but these are 4 digits, not 3, and therefore no more "charming dates" until 2020, (again, if this is how we define charm), and not a huge amount of them until 2100-2102, and nothing quite like the charm of 2000-2012, the biggest charm ever, past and future. (you get some good charm in 1000-1012, but no "three years period of the 'same' charm"). The bottom line: Nothing like this 2000-2012 charm since ever we can really remember, and nothing like we can predict in any sense of future, and with nothing even coming close, until 2100-2102. For all reasons mentioned, our time is the perfect "time-dates-obsession-period". |
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I personally do think there can be meaning in numbers, although pareidolia is always waiting to fool the person looking for connections.
An interesting thing about September is---wait for it---although it is now the 9th month it originally, in Roman times, was the 7th. Quote:
which is considered an important number by some folk. |
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Bad Astronomy Blog: 2012, the year nothing will happen Universe Today: 2012: No Planet X Universe Today: 2012: Planet X is not Nibiru Universe Today: 2012: No Killer Solar Flare Numerology? Yawn.
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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ... |
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http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm There isn't anything new or special about this one.
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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong? Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability. The Leif Ericson Cruiser Last edited by Van Rijn; 28-September-2008 at 09:32 AM.. |
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i'll try answering you all.
To NeverFly: The Term Pareidolia always refer to seeing something that is not really there, like hearing your cat in the rain, or seeing your teacher's face in the clouds. You always need vague background, and a tendency for looking for patterns, in order to cause the hallucination. What I'm doing is different. I don't see only what I want and reject the rest. Yes, I support my claim with evidence and explanations and examples, and in some examples you see that the 11/9-combo is not the most obvious one, like in 30.1.1948, but the very fact that I see a combo there, shows that another man could see it there in be affected as it may. I also don't base my conclusion on hallucinations. I go with sound logic, This is not numerology. If you think that it's just me seeing my own set of patterns, you can answer my challenge. Show me two numbers, one of them at least with 2-digits, whose combination appears in so many dates that become a symbol of destruction. And the analysis is math, not numerology, remember. (no "9 means such and such" and "so does 7", I only show the pretty much accepted human liking of the 10). I'm also not "fixed" on my idea as I develop it. In the beginning I saw only the 9/11 relief of 2012, and in the middle of the writings I added the "charm of our time issue" part. To frog: I don't seek to show you that numbers affect people in a scientific way, but in a statistical way. So many bad dates with these combos. I also gave an explanation how could it be Basically, the mind likes the 10, the 9/11 combo reminds him that it's not 10, a stress is building, and on the global scale, those tiny possible upgrades of stress might be the crucial amount of stress needed for violent outbreaks, This sounds interesting, at best, but I show my claim with the statistics. Yes, if we go in the street and I show you numbers in the sky you know it's just what i want to show you. But working with math and logic, and a bull****-detector, is a different process form pareodilia. About Sep being the originally the 7th month: This is true of course, like October being the eighth (OCT=Eight), And I guess all the western-calenders-destructions I mentioned took place after it became the 9th month. It doesn't matter if it was originally the 7th. If the human mind sees a 9/11 in the present, that's the tiny potential affect. to 01101001: thanks, I'll look through it, see if we can expand the theory, or just contradict everything else. To Van Rijn: I think you are wrong. It is different. It's not just the same. Yes, every few years many people believe the End of the World is coming, but this time it's not only a version of that, It's focused around time, and dates, and calenders. This is a new obsession. And i claim it is because we are in the 13 year period with the most charming dates ever, and I can show you mathematically, that both numbers that are known to appear as bad dates, and both dates which charm us, will be much less common, after the famous date of the obsession 21.12.2012. |
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I was agreeing that your idea demonstrates pareidolia is the case among believers. I wasn't saying that you are suffering from pareidolia. Also, you're right. It smacks of numerology. But you went into lengthy detail that clarified that is not necessarily the case. |
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I don't know what to think about what is random; but I do think that there is structure, as in synchronicity; but there is also paredolia; which is just the brains way of seeing patterns that aren't there; like suddenly seeing lots of cars of the same make and colour, just because someone you know recently bought one of that make and colour. |
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What this comes down to is pure nonsense. Let me ask, in a collection of 730 people is it really "odd" when 2 of them share the same birthday? How about in a collection of 365 is it odd that 2 people share the same "mirror image" birthday. The opening post is a fancy piece of nothing with no substance whatsoever.
ETA - What exactly does this have to do with space or astronomy? |
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No change there then, whenever I receive a tax a assessment I always feel they are taking the Mickey...... ![]()
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But you're sure the astronauts are lying; you just don't seem to know what they're lying about: Jayutah I are Learnding. |
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That terrorists are trying to destroy the beloved institution of 7/11 by associating it with destruction? nooooooooooo!
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"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be." - Douglas Adams in his speech The Four Ages of Sand [Help End Homelessness With Coffee (Facebook)][Coffee Shop Shelters (Myspace)] |
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The numbers 9 and 11 aren't all bad. Carl Sagan was born on 11. 9. 1934.
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I want to go back to the moon. I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear. "If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis Rovers forever! - ToSeek |
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Most certainly is. His baloney detection kit is the worst thing that ever happened to 2012, numerology and every other wooish CT you can think of.
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BLUEELECTRICMONKEY,
I'm really unclear as to what you are claiming. Are you claiming that something bad is actually going to happen on Dec. 21, 2012? Or are you just trying to explain why certain people think something is going to happen? And what is the conspiracy?
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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King) One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009 All moderation in purple |
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I think people who put their name in ALLCAPS (TM) need to be listened to more than Neverfly ..i mean other people
tee heePete PS that is a fantastic "WALL OF TEXT"
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PJE There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy. Last edited by peter eldergill; 29-September-2008 at 01:11 PM.. Reason: to fix a basic spelling error ... |
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Bolded because its a heck of a type to quote. Just a few points.
Anyone who disagrees, and thinks I'm not convincing enough, is welcome to present another pair of numbers, whose combination appears in so many dates that became memories of destruction, and I think it is fair to request that at least one of the numbers in the pair will be a 2-digit-number. Chance I say. That and having a 9 for a good few years in the date. And picking the dates to suit in some cases. For example. Missing the second Sino japanese war missing. 7,7, 1937. Oh oh. 7's. No doubting Crystal night was terrible. The wheels were already in motion. That I would have as a result of the nazi's coming to power some years before. Hitler chancellor 30 January 1933 Which also has the Reichstag fire, Feb 1933. Quite a major event. Night of the long knives? Another date with one 9. Mikhail Gorbachev came to power 11 March 1985. Surly that was a heck of a start. The fall of communism led to many conflicts. I could go on. I would also suggest that 1990 to 1999 being a tad unfair for this theory? We usually think of it as dial nine-one-one But originally it was promoted as dial nine-eleven. A lot of people complained "they can't find the eleven" so they changed the way they say it. So originally the 9-11 combination also appeared in emergency cases. And when do you call ? When you are more away from the feeling or delusion that everything is complete and perfect. So once again, the 9-11 combination is connected in many persons' minds with "something bad is happening". In the US of course. 999 over here but there is a valid reason for that. Trying to make sense of what you say about "And when do you call?" Over here it is when your house is on fire or medical emergency..... ETA hmm. Formatting copied as well? |
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Jon |
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You took some dates that supported your cause, but if you want to show some significance, you would need to show a complete list of important (and we would have to make up some criteria for that first) dates, and that 9/11 shows up more often than it should naturally. |
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I look forward to 2012 and the end of all things.
Mostly because the planned National Speleological Society's Annual Convention will be held in a place that I love dearly. The theme is Mayan and the slogan will be "This is the last Convention You'll Ever Attend", as a play on both the 2012 silliness and the great event the staff have planned. And yes, we will give preferential camping to our reptilian, Zetan, robot, Dobbsian, Illuminati or Chicago Cubs Word Series Champion overlords!
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"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." --Ambrose Bierce http://threelittleboxes.com |
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![]() Oh sure, you guys will survive, you'll be safe underground. ![]()
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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King) One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009 All moderation in purple |
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Wow; all that stuff in the OP and one big relationship that wasn't mentioned.
The end of the 20th century was the beginning of the computer age, and 11 in binary is 3 which evenly divides into 9. ![]() No, really. How many things in history don't conform to the numbers 9 and 11? Let me think... Modern culture of about 500 years... 100 which is the 20th century. So 0.8. 11 and 9 out of 12 months. So 0.83 11, 9 and 19 out of ~30 days. So 0.9 Which leaves only 59.76% of all modern culture events not conforming to some combination of those numbers. Edit: and there's others... ex how many years with 9, 11,19 from 1500 to 1900.
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Numbers are not case sensitive. (me) |
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That's the debunking of numerology in a nutshell. It's based on preconceived (and often wildly wrong) notions of coincidence. Positional-magnitude number representations are based upon repeating patterns. Impose that onto other domains with repeated patterns (e.g., calendars) that are inharmonic with each other and you have a supersystem ripe with "coincidence."
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Which leaves only 59.76% of all modern culture events not conforming to some combination of those numbers.
ohmygosh. What's the second digit from the left in that number??! And if you take the FIRST and the LAST digitts and add them together, what do you get?!!! THAT'S RIGHT!! AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S ALL FALLING IN TO PLACE. I suspect the you'll see the truth in the future, because that's when it will all be clear. All those CLOSEMINDED mainstreamers will have to eat thier words!!
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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part. "In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars." |
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