OK... I'm sure I'm going to be kind of yelled at for this, but my dad went and watched some ridiculous documentary on the History Channel about 2012 and a galactic alignment thingamajig and proceeded to freak me out.

I read through a bunch of the topics listed here in previous posts and while I'm mostly feeling much better, I'm a little confused about a few things:

Firstly, the Mayan calendar: some posts say that it simply rolls over like an odometer from 12.19.19.17.19 to 13.0.0.0.1 and the '13' can go as high as '19', others say that it 'resets' and the 13 is actually the same as saying '0' and that the cycle of numbers in the '13' position is 12, 13, 1 or 12, 0, 1 depending on your preferred method of display. Which one is correct? :\

Secondly... I've gotten to where all the terms are mixing up in my head, I remember hearing something about the winter solstice lining up with the galactic or celestial equator/plane/longitude/centre.

There's some talk in this post of two different alignments - one the z-axis and happening every 30 million years, and one the sun lining up with the galactic plane during the winter solstice (here), and this seems to have happened in 2000 according to other posts.

Then other posts talked about a third precession-based alignment that cycles every 26,000 years. And then there's a fourth one that happens twice a year (is this the same as the one from 2000?) Are some or all of these the same and are any of them happening in 2012 (this post seems to indicate that something is?) There's a galactic center, a plane, a longitude... I really can't figure it out. Is ANYTHING close happening at all?

Sorry, I know you must get a lot of this (and I have read through the lists and am prepared to be added to it lol!) but I am a bit confused heh. Thanks

Hi kabutar, welcome to BAUT. And we don't allow yelling at BAUT, we have firm rules about everyone being nice. Flipping around the channels I think I happened upon about 2 minutes of the program you are talking about and quickly turned off the nonsense.

From an academic sense, that's an interesting question. The Mayan's used a base 20 number system and most of their calendar cycles were based on that, so my guess is 19. But they did have a few based on 13. I would have to do some digging to check that out.

But there is something much more important. The Mayan civilization was very amazing for their time: that had a pretty accurate calendar (good enough to predict eclipses), and were very good naked-eye astronomers. But their civilization basically collapsed 1000 years ago (the reasons are not well understood, but had nothing to do with astronomy).

And the Mayans had no knowledge of astronomy that we don't have today. There is no evidence that they even knew what a galaxy was, let along anything about alignments and such. There is no way they could have discovered something we wouldn't know about.

As far as all those cycles and alignments, yes, a lot of those exist and have for the entire history of the Earth. I'll let others get into the details, but none of them can harm the Earth. And none of them significantly change on December 21, 2012.

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Do you consider Geneva to be close enough?

If I remember right - it's been a while since I read about the long count calendar - both are correct.

The long count calendar was used by a number of cultures (so it isn't really correct to call it the Mayan calendar any more than it is to refer to the calendar we use as the Canadian calendar) and over a number of eras. Different people used slightly different conventions when reckoning dates with the calendar.

In some examples archaeologists have seen the a piktun is 13 baktun long, so the day after 12.19.17.19.19 would be 1.0.0.0.0.0. In others, it rolls over at 20 so the day after 12.19.17.19.19 would be 13.0.0.0.0.

Incidentally, we know this because there are inscriptions that discuss dates well beyond our year 2012, which strongly suggests that the Maya did not believe that the world would end after 13 baktun.

Welcome.

Did none of the previous topics address your concerns? Did you see them? Want to? Nah, you clearly saw them. I guess our answers there weren't clear. But, here's the list anyway, because others may wander in who haven't seen it:

1. 2003 no, 2012 si
2. 2012
3. End of Mayan Calendar
4. Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012?
5. 2012 alignment question
6. about the Mayan 2012 item
7. 2012 Debunking?
8. Possible asteroid impact in 2012?
9. 2012 asteroid?
10. We don't have to worry about 2012!
11. More on 2012 from India Daily
12. 2012 Completion of conspiracy?
13. Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012...
14. crop circles, Planet X and 2012
15. Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma
16. According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012?
17. More 2012 Nonsense
18. NEO 2012?
19. Dangerous NEO in 2012?
20. Christmas 2012
21. 2012 mayan calender end of world
22. Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012
23. New 2012 threat?
24. 2012 look at this thing on the sun
25. Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012
26. Pole shift idea origins
27. Dec 20 2012
28. 2012 Stuff
29. Horizon Project-New End of World Scare?
30. Date: December 21st 2012
31. Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen?
32. 2012: What do you think well happen (if anything)
33. So what will we see in 2012?
34. Galactic Tsunami?
35. Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy?
36. Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012
37. 2012?
38. Any truth to this?
39. How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre?
40. the whole 2012 poles flip nonsense
41. Planet X Official Advertisement
42. What year are we in
43. Quick question about the sun
44. Galactic Alignment
45. Books of 2012! -
46. 2007 = 2012
47. Return of Planet X By Rand
48. Don Alejandro - Mayan Elder.
49. Toutatis 4179: 2012?
50. Galactic Alignment in 2012 ?
51. Solar Storms
52. A real prediction!
53. NIBURU - Brown Dwarf, The DESTROYER
54. 2012 Galactic Alignment
55. Not 2012 again! But I cant help it~
56. New evidence for 2012 TEOTWAWKI!!!
57. this may be a silly question but...
58. Just to know if this is true
59. Just Wondering...
60. Planet X/Nibiru, is it real?
61. Youv heard this a million times.
62. Nibaru or Planet X
63. Mayan calendar
64. 2012 Article?
65. can i say something please on planet x
66. Nibiru
67. The growing earth.... :P
68. Our Solar System's Eclipse of the Galactic Plane on Dec 21, 2012?
69. Something scaring the hell out of me....
70. It's Only the end of the World AGAIN!!! (Woo Woo Alert)
71. 2021 Doomsday
72. is it just me or is the milky way brighter..?
73. Polar Shift in 2012?
74. I would like to ask about Nubiru stuff...
75. Bit behind the times, my appologies...
76. the "pole shift thing"
77. All the Truth about 2012
78. Confused about 2012 (yes, another one!)

Universe Today: No Doomsday in 2012
Bad Astronomy Blog: 2012, the year nothing will happen
Universe Today: 2012: No Planet X
Universe Today: 2012: Planet X is not Nibiru
Universe Today: 2012: No Killer Solar Flare
Universe Today: 2012: No Geomagnetic Reversal

Whew. That's getting heavy.

They've probably all been claimed. Charlatans and fearmongers don't need to focus on accuracy. That's why there are so many versions. Nothing exciting alignment-wise is happening in 2012. Any alignment is the sort that happens every year. Further, alignments don't have any effect other than that 3 moving features happen to lie on, or sloppily close to, an imaginary line, or one moving object passes through an imaginary plane, for an instant. Nothing happens anyway.

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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

If anyone else happens across this thread and decides to start their own anyway--please don't. Please add to an existing thread. Necromancy, in my opinion, is to be preferred to thread overload. Besides, it's not as though all of them are old enough for a revival to be called thread necromancy!

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

I kinda had my money on the idea that the thread count in Ones'n'oohs' links would match his handle by the time Dec 2012 rolls 'round.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

I agree with Gillianren, but only to a point.

We need to seperate the woo threads from the valid information threads. Now; I'm not saying that it's even possible to do that, but there's always hope.

And; maybe in 2013 we can close all these threads with a "see? we're still here" post.

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Thanks for all the replies and the clarification on the calendar.

01101001 - I did indeed look at the other threads. Most of the time I concluded that nothing was happening, but then I'd run across a couple of posts such as these -

or

and get confused again wondering whether there was any truth to that (is that longitudinal one debunked as well, or is that the one that happens every year?) this one's confusing me since I can't find any answers to it in the other topics so I suppose a yes/no on this one would be really helpful.

Maybe a sticky FAQ as has been suggested in many topics would be really helpful... if it just stated whatever alignment you've heard about is nonsense! and started with that, it would take care of a lot of questions perhaps Nevertheless, I am honoured to be added to The List. :P

I thought that of your first post since you clearly stated you read the other threads. There's so much garbage in so many threads that it's really hard to figure it out without getting sick.
I absolutely agree. I think there's lots of places on this board (at least in conspiracy and ATM) that might have a reference of information that regularly pop-up.

That way, the next time someone comes in and says [whatever], we can just say "post #x, here".
Of course these would be locked threads to keep them from getting cluttered.


Now; the issue is the mods' time.

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Yes, that was exactly what happened. :P Hence if someone was able to make a list of the points (galactic equator, plane, longitude, centre, pole shift, pole flip, baktuns, etc) and simply state NONSENSE on each one or have a quick explanation it'd make things so much easier heh. But yes I understand the mods may not have too much time.

I am still curious about the longitudinal thing, though (see my prev post) - has that been debunked too or is that what happens every year lol? (just for my peace of mind)

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kabutar - don't worry - the sun crosses the line of the galactic plane every winter near the solstice and nothing happens. During the course of one year as earth orbits the sun, it will appear to cross every longitude of the ecliptic (the line upon which the sun appears to move across the sky). One of those lines happens to be the galactic plane which cuts across the ecliptic at an angle.

In reality the sun is NOT moving across the galactic plane. It is the earth moving and near the time of the winter solstice, the earth is in such a place that the sun appears directly in your line of sight toward the galactic plane.

The solar system is a long way from literally, physically crossing the galactic plane as it orbits the milky-way. It won't happen for millions of years.

The explanation is simplified but hopefully not confusing:
The line which marks the galactic plane completely encircles the solar system after all it follows the center of the milky-way and we see some part of the milky-way practically all year around as we revolve around the sun on our yearly voyage (we would see it 365 days of the year if we could see stars during the daylight hours). So, looking out toward the sun and beyond, it would appear that sun crosses the galactic plane not once, but twice each year; every year; as it has for millions of years. Our solar system is not physically passing through the plane, it appears to cross over due to our position with respect to the sun and the plane of the galaxy.


(Image 1: As earth orbits the sun, the sun appears to pass across the line of the galactic center on a certain date)


(Image 2: Six months later, the sun again appears to cross the galactic center, but this time 180 degrees from the first crossing point)

As you can see, the sun is not moving with respect to the galactic center, but rather the earth is moving and so appears the sun is moving. The illusion of alignment between earth, sun and galactic center occurs twice per year.

Notes:
1. The galactic plane is tilted a little more than 60 degrees from the ecliptic plane.

So just to be clear - this is what they refer to by galactic longitude - which is basically an illusion after all? definitely interesting. thanks for the explanation!

I have no idea what is meant by "galactic longitude". The circle of the earth is divided into longitudinal lines (meridians) with zero degrees being the imaginary line that passes through Greenwich, England. The eclipic is divided into longitudinal measures, with zero degrees being the line which passes through the spring (vernal) equinox. The galactic plane is divided into longitudinal measures with zero degrees being located in Sagittarius (the center of the galaxy). Maybe they are making a big deal because the sun appears to cross the galactic plane very close to the galactic zero longitude. All of these lines are more or less arbitrary - agreed upon by astronomers and navigators as points of reference.

Yes, I think this is what it was. But then this has already happened in 1999, has it not? (Or is this what you're talking about above as happening every year...)

Sorry, I promise this will be the last clarification needed, I'm just trying to figure this out. I can't quite get my head around all these planes and things (the scale is too big. I work better with lattice planes... :P)

It happens every year. In fact in some years past, the alignment with the galactic zero longitude has been even closer to the exact date of the winter solstice than it will be in 2012. The timing of the crossing varies slightly year by year.

As for visualizing it - download a good planetarium program that will let you turn on the line of the galactic equator and the line of the ecliptic. For example, here is a screenshot from one such free program available on the internet:

(The plane of the galaxy - line seen slicing through the center of the milky way - is being crossed by the sun as it travels along the line of the ecliptic. date 21 Dec 2012 - approx 10:30AM)

The program is Cartes du Ceil (Sky Charts). I only recommend it because it is accurate and free, there are others that work as well. Download Cartes du Ceil here: http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/

Signing off for the night, kabutar

OK, I've gotta admit the star charts mostly go over my head and I'm still confused as to what exactly is what, but thanks for the visual, it does help a bit. I think the most important thing is that no alignment - equator, ecliptic, longitude, center, plane, etcetera! is happening in 2012 as mentioned above, lol.

Thanks again for the help

Well then how about thinking about it this way.

The galactic plane is simply a description of a geometric thing.

It is fundamentally no different than the equator of earth.

What happens to you if you cross the Equator? Nothing much.

Similarly, for the galactic plane. What happens when you cross it, nothing much.

These are lines which we simply make up to give a frame of reference to reality. Since they are geometric constructs, crossing them has no 'meaning' as such apart from describing our position relative to other objects.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

Well that's not exactly true. There is certainly an alignment. In the most simple of terms, if you looked at the Sun on that specific date, in the background would be the center of the Milky Way Galaxy (more or less). But it just isn't anything special. This happens every year.

By sheer coincidence this date also happens to be when the Mayan calender rolls over, or whatever it does. There exists no known physical process which could affect the Earth in any meaningful way on this date. If something does happen, it would be, for lack of a better word ... magic. If you believe in magic, you should probably stock up on bottled water and canned goods. Otherwise, don't sweat it.

formulaterp - yes, sorry, that too, but if it happens every year it's nothing to worry about. Hence my meaning that there's no 'special alignment' in 2012. The only reason I kept posting was coz I was trying to understand what they meant by 'galactic longitude', which seems to be the sun between Earth and the center... so all good.

"galactic longitude" refers to one way astronomers map the galaxy. You might want to look at this image for reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...-annotated.jpg

You will see that 0 deg longitude points toward the center of the galaxy. This is of course an arbitrary choice, like 0 deg longitude on Earth runs through the Greenwich observatory in England.