For the Apollo 17, I was there. Where it was, was aboard CV-14 USS Ticonderoga. That was the recovery ship. Here's what I saw.

The parachutes opened up, and I could see a dot. As it came down, the view improved, and I could see four dots. Then it continued down, and I could see the capsule and the three 'chutes.

There was some trouble, for the UDT men to reach the capsule, an unexpected current. After maybe ten or fifteen minutes, they got the astronauts out of the capsule, and brought them to the USS Ticonderoga, on their Zodiac boats.

Later that night, I returned to the flight deck. All was quiet and the ocean calm. I walked aft of the island, and there it was, the Apollo 17 capsule. it was scorched from reentry, and big as life. I touched it. It was real.

No one will ever convince me, that they were'nt in space. Since they were in space, I'm sure they were on the moon. We didn't cruise slowly, to be in position to recover them, whereever they may have aborted on the way to the moon, for a hoax. From the time after their launch that they reached space, to the splash down, we were where they would come down if they had to abort on the way. I hope I said that right. There was no hoax; no government spends that much money and uses that much manpower (5,000 aboard on splashdown day), to pull a hoax.

Now, remember, that's just the Apollo 17. Each manned Apollo launch and trip had the same effort and thousands of people. Remember, Apollo 8 circumnavigated the moon, without landing. Apollo 10 came withing 50,000' of the moon, without landing. Then, there was Apollo 11 through 17 with Apollo 13 circumnavigating the moon without landing. Each one of those launch and recoveries were mostly splashdowns and with as many people as Apollo 17 participating in each recovery.

There's no way that that many people could keep a secret that big, for this long, with all the whistle blowers around. No way. The Apollo program was no hoax.

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Salty
"...with God, all things are possible..." Even evolution

And that's the big part. I've chosen 1 petit detail of the missions and looked it up: the amplifier of the clock control signal in the tracking stations. It was all traceable, it was all correct, it was all documented, though by now some of the documentation is lost/destroyed. You cannot make a hoax that perfect, on such a scale, with so many people involved. Just going to the moon is far easier.

If you had one of these amplifiers at the Ticonderoga, I'll make you hunt it down with all the powers I have. That means ask you politely. But AFAIK the Ticonderoga wasn't used as floating tracking station?

At ESA, I've worked on the development of advanced propulsion systems. I used Apollo engine data for these designs. If it's fake and didn't work as advertised, why are aerospace engineers still using the engineering data of the Apollo project?

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Thank you, Nicolas, for the solid reinforcement of that little detail. It's the little things, that count.

OK, with the antennae array on the "Tico", I couldn't say whether it did or did not have any updated tracker aboard. So, my impression that we followed data provided by regular tracking stations around the globe, remains uniformed. I was just a gopher USNR.

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Salty
"...with God, all things are possible..." Even evolution

I didn't know you were aboard the Tico for the recovery Salty; that's really cool.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
"In order to increase awareness of the homeless, security have been given binoculars."

Cool experience! I hope you washed your hand afterward; barbecued phenolic resin is carcinogenic; although I confess to doing the same for the Apollo 10 CM long after its flight. And then washing my hand.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

What a great experience Salty. 17 was my favorite mission (gotta love that they finally sent a geologist to the moon!).

I actually got to meet Gene Cernan last year, along with Al Bean, Charlie Duke, Buzz Aldrin, Ed Mitchell, Dave Scott, Walt Cunningham, and Rusty Schweickart. John Young was there too, but I didn't meet him.

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I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

Thank you, gentlemen.

Like I say, it's one of the few highlights of my life.

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Salty
"...with God, all things are possible..." Even evolution

Many thanks for the eyewitness account, Salty. I found it plenty convincing just living through the Apollo Era, watching and reading about every step in the progress of the project in all the media. I've even complained here about people wasting their time defending recent and thoroughly documented history against idiots who don't want to believe it. I thought they just give the hoaxers more exposure. But apparently you guys just enjoy it!

I eat hoax pudding as dessert

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To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Wow. Nice one Salty. How jealous am I?!

But yes, a big hand to all here, who spend lots of their time, debunking CTs and ATMs. You have the patience of Job. I wish I had it. My view is - 'if people want to believe rubbish, let them- I'm not going to lose sleep over it'. Like I said, I wish I had your patience.

That is way cool.

It really is too bad that people can't get over that it wasn't a hoax. They have the same mindset as most other believers of certain faiths. They hear what fits their conceptions, and ignore the rest. I can totally see why people thought it was a conspiracy; there certainly was motive. Sorry though, the facts stand.

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"In the end the aggressors always destroy themselves, making way for others who know how to cooperate and get along. Life is much less a competitive struggle for survival than a triumph of cooperation and creativity."- Fritjof Capra

www.gonzoscience.com

This for most should say it all.

I was far to young to do anything neat like touch a capsule after its return, I was just two when Neil Armstrong stepped out onto the Lunar surface. However as I grew older I remember my mother sitting me down to watch the Skylab launches as well as hanging on each news story of the Apoolo/Souyz mission.

Way way too much data, people involved, Watergate wanna be reporters looking for the next deep throat for such a conspiracy to have even survive FIVE years after such a so called hoax.

It just comes down to what Toothdust said...

The facts stand.

Just my two cents.

Vons

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Mission Control : "Please don't kick the robot Bill. "

Wow! Wonderful story! Just one of the places I would have given anything to be there at the time - during Apollo 11 I was 13, Apollo 17 I would have been 16 - and I followed all the space stuff since the end of the Geminii missions absolutely avidly.

This just adds to the weight of evidence for the landings. All those people on the ship, in fact wasn't the aircraft carrier always escorted by other ships too, thus making the complement of sailors who would have seen the capsule float down and be recovered far more than the carriers own crew?

How could so many people keep quiet for so long if it wasn't all it seemed?

As stated: The facts stand!

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The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but rather, 'hmm.... that's funny...'
- Isaac Asimov

Are we alone in the Universe? Are we the only intelligent life? Who knows? But the universe is so BIG, it somehow seems such a waste of space if we are ....

No, I definitely remember, there were no other ships in sight. Please let me qualify this. At night, I would take a break, from the ship's laundry. I could and did, climb up interior ladderways to the ship's signal bridge. This was over 50' above the flight deck. The flight deck was a good 30' above sea level. So, I was 80' up and on a clear night, except once when a trawler was about five miles away, I saw no other ships' lights. We were cruising with navigation and hangar deck lights.

I saw, from the signal bridge, no sight of other any naval ships.

I thank all of you for your input.

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Salty
"...with God, all things are possible..." Even evolution

Your quotation above has long been my argument to rebut "the government covered it up" type conspiracies.

Thanks for telling us your experience.

I'll bet you and I aren't the only two, with this opinion.

Happy Thanksgiving Day, to you and yours.

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Salty
"...with God, all things are possible..." Even evolution

I skim-read the OP because I was too busy to read it properly. But tonight I had some time on my hands so I read it properly.

Wonderful stuff. One of the (many) things that makes being a BAUT member something special.

Here we go again with the moon hoax... why not a Gemini hoax, or a Skylab hoax?

What would be the purpose of such coverup? Did you ever though that if there was a coverup USSR would try to explore such thing? They had radars and satellites so they were able to follow US spacecraft movements. They were also able to receive the radio signals from moon landing.

Why? The gubmint, is EEEEEVIL, of course.

As for arguments against: The conspiracy theorists (CTs) either don't think of these things, handwave them away, or invent even more ridiculous reasons to circumvent them. For instance, there is the claim that the USSR was paid off with wheat to keep their mouths shut.

Or worse, they derail the discussion of one point by ignoring it and bombarding you with other, equally ridiculous points.

Elsewhere on this board (or on the ApolloHoax board) is a discussion of the psychology of Apollo CTs.

Fred

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"For shame, gentlemen, pack your evidence a little better against another time."
-- John Dryden, "The Vindication of The Duke of Guise" 1684

In my case it was Apollo 8, on display at the 1969 Paris airshow. I went up to it and touched it, just before the guard came across and told me not to. I got quite a smear of the resin on my fingertips.

You can't touch the Apollo 10 CM in the London Science Museum, it's enclosed in transparent plastic.

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"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head" Terry Pratchett

You can't touch the Apollo 10 CM in the London Science Museum, it's enclosed in transparent plastic.

True -- I was off by one mission. It was the Apollo 9 command module now in the San Diego Aerospace Museum, but formerly in Michigan where I met it.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

10 just has a glass panel fence around it now (as of Nov 2007)

Dare I post a pic?

Oh go on.

clicky

Always great to hear first hand experience such as this.

Who are you directing this at, Valkynn? Everyone in this thread is saying the Apollo missions were real, and in many cases augmenting that statement with personal experiences. You seem to be asking questions of someone who is not here.

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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." The Doctor, Doctor Who: The Face of Evil.

The nasty CTers (some do) claim that all the Apollos did essentially what Apollo 13 did: just orbit the moon . Since the video feed was controlled by NASA, the federal govt. had control over the information flow to the public. The actual landings were much more difficult than the lunar orbital insertion and were faked on sets at JPL? And some tell that awful rumor that NASA killed the 3 Apollo 1 astronauts because they were going to expose the "Dark Mission" , with 1 unpublicized astronaut from the "secret corp" there also .

I am not arguing that the fed. govt. wouldn't fake things for their own purposes, they do it all the time (and if you don't believe this, look at history, it is a series of rulers propogandizing their "sheeple" to maintain control). However, after reading the threads here at BAUT, I am convinced that the 12 Apollo astronauts actually did land. I actually am disgusted at what these particular CTers have done because every semester, someone always asks me about them and I have to refer them to debunking sites. What a waste of time and energy.
(and of course, we don't want to get punched by Buzz Aldrin).

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'Just be a good team player in life', Andrew Evans

Technically Apollo 13 didn't orbit the Moon. The Apollo flights that orbited the Moon without landing were 8 and 10.

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"One does not require alien ruins in order to absorb a profound sense of wonder and mystery from the moon. That our civilization had actually visited it is miracle enough." Jason Roberts

Technically any trajectory is an orbit.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Sorry, I was confused because of a Public Affairs Transmission from Apollo 16. "Apollo 16 Commander John Young becomes the first human to go into lunar orbit twice, having flown on Apollo 10 which is a precursor to the landing missions. [The] Apollo 10 mission descended to within about eight miles of the lunar surface and the, that is the Lunar Module did. Jim Lovell has been to the Moon twice, but the second trip, the first having been Apollo 8 the first manned lunar orbit mission, the second being in Apollo 13, which was an aborted mission and coasted past the Moon and, therefore, Lovell did not go into lunar orbit on his second trip."

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"One does not require alien ruins in order to absorb a profound sense of wonder and mystery from the moon. That our civilization had actually visited it is miracle enough." Jason Roberts

I've been under the lasting impression that the Apollo 13 went around the moon, after finding out they didn't have the resources to land, because of the problems.

It seems to me, going around the moon in that instance, is more likely than going to and from the moon on the same side of the moon. Nevertheless, I could be wrong.

Also, I wonder about media statements.

Really good to hear from all of you.

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Salty
"...with God, all things are possible..." Even evolution

From what I understand, they went around the moon to get a proper "swing" back to Earth.

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Spread the Love!

Interesting semantics issue. Lovell certainly went around the moon on the free return trajectory, and I would argue that as the return TEC intersected the TLC, then at that point of intersection Apollo 13 had completed one complete, albeit very elliptical orbit.

Thoughts from the orbital mechanics experts on board?

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith