One of the CT questions is why were the Secret Service told to stay clear of the car. The answer is simple. Because that is what Kennedy wanted. It had been an ongoing thing that the SS wanted JFK to be more careful, while he wanted to be more accessable to the public. Mind you, at that point there had not been an assasination since McKinley, and there is a lot of annecdotal evedence that JFK did not take the threat seriously.

Good point about the single shooter. If there were a conspiricy it was a poorly planned one. A good shooter could have done it and gotten away clean.

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The pavement is evil, and it must be punished.

I actually read a very interesting hypothesis from two historians who were investigating Oswald's motivations for assassination. They came to an interesting conclusion that his target was not JFK but Governor Connelly.

Oswald had been trying to get back into the military for sometime and had been frequently denied due to concerns about his fitness following his trip to the USSR and supposed suicide attempt. His final efforts involved trying to gain admittance to the Texas National Guard. The week before the shooting he received a letter denying his final appeal. That final appeal authority was Governor Connelly of Texas.

They surmised that Oswald had great motivation for killing Connelly and none for killing Kennedy. He was a mediocre shot, in fact missing once, failing to kill his intended target and killing the President in the process. JFK was simply in the way of a poor rifleman with an axe to grind against the governor of Texas. It may also explain why Oswald reportedly vehemently denied killing JFK... he never intended to do so, and may have actually been disturbed that he had done so, to the point of serious psychological denial.

Anyway, I got a talk from one of the authors of this hypothesis years ago in college (and he was quite adamant that theirs was just a hypothesis based on the best available information), though the names completely escape me. Though it seems rather anti-climatic I think it best explains what happened that day. In fact, the sad irony that Kennedy may not have even been the target is so striking a possibility that it makes perfect sense. The investigators (and most everyone else) would automatically assume the shooter was trying to kill the President. But, what if this first, very basic, assumption was wrong? Nothing that followed would seem to make much sense if you get the identity of the intended victim wrong.

That's my two cents on this subject.

I actually read a very interesting hypothesis from two historians who were investigating Oswald's motivations for assassination. They came to an interesting conclusion that his target was not JFK but Governor Connelly.

Oswald had been trying to get back into the military for sometime and had been frequently denied due to concerns about his fitness following his trip to the USSR and supposed suicide attempt. His final efforts involved trying to gain admittance to the Texas National Guard. The week before the shooting he received a letter denying his final appeal. That final appeal authority was Governor Connelly of Texas.

They surmised that Oswald had great motivation for killing Connelly and none for killing Kennedy. He was a mediocre shot, in fact missing once, failing to kill his intended target and killing the President in the process. JFK was simply in the way of a poor rifleman with an axe to grind against the governor of Texas. It may also explain why Oswald reportedly vehemently denied killing JFK... he never intended to do so, and may have actually been disturbed that he had done so, to the point of serious psychological denial.

Anyway, I got a talk from one of the authors of this hypothesis years ago in college (and he was quite adamant that theirs was just a hypothesis based on the best available information), though the names completely escape me. Though it seems rather anti-climatic I think it best explains what happened that day. In fact, the sad irony that Kennedy may not have even been the target is so striking a possibility that it makes perfect sense. The investigators (and most everyone else) would automatically assume the shooter was trying to kill the President. But, what if this first, very basic, assumption was wrong? Nothing that followed would seem to make much sense if you get the identity of the intended victim wrong.

That's my two cents on this subject.

I'd like to recomend a reading of http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/...tml#pgfId=4877
and
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/USO/chp3_p1.html

This is part of an interview of Col. L Fletcher Prouty who was a USAF liason officer 1963. It's an interesting read.[/url]

[-(

Only if you enjoy fiction.

All evidence demonstrates that Prouty was a kook. It'd be worth checking to see if he and Nancy Lieder share any relation.
Lengthy presentation here detailing Prouty's credibility (or lack thereof), and this page explores similar Prouty absurdity, as well as his loose depiction in Oliver Stone's JFK.

Just to recap, here's some Prouty wisdom as detailed by David Reitzes:

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :^o

The teacher who issued this assignment stated today that he is very interested in the whole JFK thing, so I think I might print this page out and give it to him to read over... Or give him the URL. I don't know which. I'm allowed to print this stuff out, right? I mean, I know that I almost certainly can, and it's a pretty stupid question, but I can, right?

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Begone, braggage!
My bible!

Just keep in mind that this is really only a discussion, and no matter how much any of us claim to know about the subject, none of us could be truly considered "experts." If you just want the discussion of ideas, then you're golden!

Rich brings up an interesting point about someone else being the target. I recall a recent guest (I don't remember which one, or what radio show since they all talked to "JFK experts" last week) who contended that Oswald had intended to get a former Governor of Texas. He missed in his attempt (a contention supposedly supported by notes found in his apartment) and was looking for another way to get to this man. When news of JFK's upcoming visit was published, he (Oswald) decided to go down in history as "the man who killed Kennedy" instead of the "the man who killed whatshisface". Either way, there are more rumors and theories than you could shake a stick at. This is one of those mysteries that will probably not be solved anytime soon.

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Those who repeat History are doomed to learn it.

Do you recall the incident in which Adlai Stevenson was heckled by the JBS members in Dallas and hit over the head with some of their posters and the sticks the posters were on?

how is it possible that JFK got shot from the front if his head leens forward befor going to the back and left.its impossible to be shot from the grassy knoll then because he would have then been driving his head into the bullet if you look closely to the zepruder film nix film and others you can see that he head goes forward then back and to the left therefore he had to be shot from behind and not from the grassy knoll. If you believe that LHO shot JFK from the book depository and from the grassy knoll the you are sadly mistaken i believe. it is unhuman to be able to go from the book depository to the grassy knoll in a matter of seconds.

You're using big text. That convinced me. Yeap.

Welcome to the board....but why did you choose to comment on a two-year old thread?

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"4th Law of Modern Thermodynamics: Where Mihoshi is, Chaos Reigns." ~W. Hakubi
"Gun control is hitting your target; Recycling is reloading your brass." ~ Lex of Dirty Work.

As a first time poster, how did you find it? This thread was pretty well buried under many layers of civilization that have come and gone since the last post.

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Forming opinions as we speak

Perhaps he used the search function to find the JFK thread.

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"4th Law of Modern Thermodynamics: Where Mihoshi is, Chaos Reigns." ~W. Hakubi
"Gun control is hitting your target; Recycling is reloading your brass." ~ Lex of Dirty Work.

Is Jkm running a "school" for old thread bumping???

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"The facts gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov

a new carreer calling - web board archaeology...

I'm not a conspiracy freak but the fact that Bobby Kennedy was killed added to it, Jacqueline always said the Kennedys were being 'targeted' and believed it so much that she even left the States to protect herself and children

I voted yes, and while I wasn't born when it happened I have a tough time buying the 'magic bullet' theory.

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"It was a crime of passion! Not premeditated dentistry!"

Well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery you know. And is capital lettering required for shouting - because I felt deaf just reading that post.

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BugMeNot A portal to bypass free-site registration.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer - renowned 19th Century German philosopher.

I won't go into the many issues about this event, as that is best left for discussion in the Conspiracy section. But I thought I'd comment on the point about Ruby. Watching the film of the shooting is incredible: The police basically stand still holding Oswald as they watch Ruby come out of the crowd with a gun, and not move an inch as Ruby is able to practically poke the gun barrel into Oswald's stomach and shoot him.

It is ridiculous, watching the "stunned" expressions of the police officers, holding Oswald's arms and just acting like stooges as they watch a man walk up to them while pointing out his gun!

Oswald's shooting doesn't prove there was a conspiracy in itself, but it sure helps to make it a more than reasonable possibility, in my view.

Oh yeah, it was like 10-20 seconds that they 'just stood there'. Oh wait, no, it was about 1 second and it was a noisy crowd, close in, with flashbulbs going off. Yeah the 'stooges' just stood there. Ever notice the sheriff's hand on Oswald's belt? He was trying to pull Oswald out of the way. Have you even seen the footage? Doesn't seem like it to me.

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

Here’s a video of Connally talking about the shooting and what he remembered. This is an audio-video file, about 1 min 24 sec., a couple of megs.

----
edit: Opps, that website says direct linking not allowed. I'll try to find a cut and paste link.
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Ok, ok, now I get it. Direct linking to the video media player is not allowed, but linking to the page where the video and media player are located is allowed here:

http://media.putfile.com/connally_edit_md/320

Back in those days, local police departments didn’t quite know what to do about the national media. The national media kept hounding the police department for more film and live video of Oswald. They kept implying that the police department was mistreating Oswald (this is a typical media ruse, in an attempt to get the cops to allow more live coverage of a suspected killer). So Police Chief Curry decided to let the media cover the transfer on live TV. The PD had an armored car just outside the side door, prepared to take Oswald to the County Jail, where he would be more secure.

Ruby had been wandering around the PD hallways for the last day and night, and dressed in a suit and hat, he looked like either a reporter or a government agent. He just walked into an open garage door of the basement, acting as if he belonged there, and he mingled among the reporters before Oswald was brought out. I don’t think he made the final decision to shoot Oswald until the last few seconds. It became a compulsion for him, and he thought he would be seen as a “hero” for doing it.

Today, cops and feds make sure that high-profile suspects are protected from such assassinations, and they usually move them outside the view of the press and they make them wear bullet-proof vests. But that’s today. Nobody thought anybody would be crazy enough to forfeit their own life and freedom by shooting Oswald in front of all those cameras and cops. But that was back then.

What Curry probably should have done was allow just three journalists view the transfer, in what is known as a “media pool”: One reporter, one film cameraman, and one still photographer, and they all should have been definitely identified by their newspapers and TV networks. Then they could have shared their reports, film, and stills with all other media. That way Curry could have backed the armored car into the garage, closed all garage doors, inspected the garage for people hiding among the cars, and then they should have moved Oswald into the armored car, with just the three media men in the “pool” covering the move.

I like Dennis Miller's line on this. In one of his early shows, he was poking fun at Denny Terio and Dance Fever. (Anybody remember that show - kind of like American Idol wrapped in spandex, with both shows being proof in themselves of how badly the world needs another disco dancer, or another pop singer).

Anyway, his line about Dance Fever:

"I haven't seen correography that stiff since Lee Harvey Oswald prison transfer."

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Why are people fascinated by the Kennedy assassination?

We have had four presidents killed and about two dozen attempts. Of those only two were conspiracies; Lincoln and the attempt on Truman. Conspiracy being defined as a criminal act by two or more people.

In every other case, it has been a lone gunman or woman.

Only two questions need to be asked:

1. Could Oswald have done it alone? Answer yes without any doubt.
2. Is there any evidence that someone else involved? Answer No, after forty years there has not been one piece of evidence that has stand up to testing.

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Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, people want to be entertained.

The so called 'magic bullet', wasn't. It was a straight line from the window Oswald shot from through Kennedy's neck and into Connally.

there is no doubt Oswald was in a bit of a Jam that day !
http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~aleks/oswald.jpg
If you're looking for the real 'stooges' try checking out those useless bodygaurds that were suposed be to protecting the President and First Lady, and the bodyguards that were meant to save JFK's brother
Conspiracy isn't the word but 'Incompetency' is the correct word, ancient Praetorian-guards or MR-T would have done a better job

Exactly. I mean, heck, two people tried to assassinate Gerald Ford within, what, a month of each other--and the assassination attempts weren't connected. (I think, however, that good ol' Squeaky's attempt does actually count as a conspiracy, but she's from a rather famous group of conspirators in other crimes, and I believe had already served prison time for conspiracy to commit murder.)

I'm not old enough to remember Kennedy's death--either Kennedy assassination, come to that--but I have no problem accepting that the weight of evidence is behind Oswald being the lone gunman, and Jack Ruby is equally likely to have been yet another crazed lone gunman. American history's full of them.

Oh, and as for the gunshot residue tests--the ones used on Oswald were known to be unreliable in 1963. They were primarily used to intimidate suspects who didn't know that.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Moved from BABBling to Conspiracy Theories.

The main problem with assuming that Ruby's actions was all part of some big conspriacy is that he was late getting to the police statuion. At the time that Oswald was supposed to be being transfered, Ruby was standing in line at the Post Office. This means that either Oswald had the ability to know when Ruby would get there and so delayed his transfer so as to allow himself to be shot, or that Ruby could predict that Oswald was going to delay the transfer and until he got there. Either way, one of them had to be able to somehow have information that was impossible to know (Oswald knowing how long it would take for Ruby to finish at the Post Office and get to the Police Station, or Ruby knowing how long Oswald was going to take to get changed.)

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

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