Tunguska, bizarre theory posed. - Page 4

Grashtel · #91 (**permalink**) 08-July-2009, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piano Paul

To quote hhEb09'1:

A cubic meter of rock weighs a couple ton, so a(n astronomical) object weighing a billion tons would be less than a kilometer in diameter, right? I haven't read the article you linked in the OP but is that the sort of size that he's talking about?

So if my arithmetic is correct, a rock that is 40 x 40 meters (if the "size" reference is accurate) would be 64,000 tons? At even 7 miles a second that could make quite a serious noise; what if it was traveling 40 miles a second (144,000 mph. I think better in miles than kilometers, and I know everyone here can convert if they want to)? I don't know how to calculate the release of energy from such an impact, but I'm sure it would be intense! And, if Fred and Barney WEREN'T flying the craft, the damage it could have done might have knocked us back to the Stone Age, maybe? Maybe not...

Definitely not, the impact would only be equivalent to a 6-7 megaton detonation, not something you want to be close to but nowhere near having major global effects.

You may well find it enlightening (and amusing) to play around with the Earth Impact Effects Program, it calculates the effects of bodies of different sizes and speeds hitting Earth and produces some quite interesting results.

Piano Paul · #92 (**permalink**) 08-July-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grashtel

You may well find it enlightening (and amusing) to play around with the Earth Impact Effects Program, it calculates the effects of bodies of different sizes and speeds hitting Earth and produces some quite interesting results.

Thanks for the reference. You're right, that's fun, and it's also enlightening. I think most people (especially me) far overestimate the potential damage done from an impact, even if we (I) don't overestimate the likelihood of its happening in my lifetime. There are many days, however, when I look at the world around us and think to myself "What this planet needs is a good old asteroid impact! There's nothing wrong with this planet that losing 2/3 of the population wouldn't solve!" Problem is, I can't envision a scenario in which I would be worthy of being grouped in the 1/3 that survived!

Gillianren · #93 (**permalink**) 08-July-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piano Paul

Problem is, I can't envision a scenario in which I would be worthy of being grouped in the 1/3 that survived!

Or, regardless of whether you were or not, certain to be. That's the part I think a lot of people forget--any cataclysm is as likely to take them as anyone else. Oddly, Stephen King got it right when he removed most of the world's population--not everyone who survived necessarily ought to have for the benefit of a community of survivors.

Piano Paul · #94 (**permalink**) 08-July-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gillianren

--not everyone who survived necessarily ought to have for the benefit of a community of survivors.

I thought King wrote exceptionally well on that detail (We're talking about The Stand, yes?) when he incorporated the randomness of victims in such a worldwide cataclysm. I tend to picture a world where everyone who survives is someone who has something of worth to contribute (I play piano, maybe I could work in a saloon?) but it's easy to forget that a world calamity, extinction level event, what have you, would not be nearly so particular as to who lives and who dies. One of the best scenarios in The Stand was the confrontation between Stu's group and the men who had captured and held women as slaves, sexual and otherwise. An ugly thought, but probably accurate, and King is known for writing horror. In this case I'd say success was achieved...

Gillianren · #95 (**permalink**) 08-July-2009, 08:39 PM

Oh, it's a very creepy book in several places. Mostly, I was thinking about the string of "no big loss" endings. There doubtless would be additional deaths after the major cataclysm of people who just wouldn't be able to cope in one way or another. Several of us have mentioned ourselves in such a list, as several of us have certain pharmaceutical needs that probably wouldn't be met. Diabetics, for example, would have serious problems if they're insulin dependent.

Kelfazin · #96 (**permalink**) 08-July-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gillianren

Oh, it's a very creepy book in several places. Mostly, I was thinking about the string of "no big loss" endings. There doubtless would be additional deaths after the major cataclysm of people who just wouldn't be able to cope in one way or another. Several of us have mentioned ourselves in such a list, as several of us have certain pharmaceutical needs that probably wouldn't be met. Diabetics, for example, would have serious problems if they're insulin dependent.

It would be an interesting event to observe scientifically (preferrably from orbit). Obviously, unless mass production and distribution of pharmaceuticals could be reestablished, Darwin would take over. I wonder where natural selection would (will?) take Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Piano Paul · #97 (**permalink**) 09-July-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelfazin

It would be an interesting event to observe scientifically (preferrably from orbit). Obviously, unless mass production and distribution of pharmaceuticals could be reestablished, Darwin would take over. I wonder where natural selection would (will?) take Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

That is a very interesting question, since we in the West particularly owe so much of our health and longevity to pharmaceuticals (I take a statin for cholesterol). Gillianren mentioned diabetes, which is becoming more common. An ELE would have the secondary effect of weeding out those survivors of the event who have health conditions which rely on continued sustained use of drugs to stay healthy. One scenario I've always envisioned in case of world catastrophe is that the drugstores and liquor stores would be some of the first places that get pillaged and looted, because liquor will be useful for trade (and for forgetting what the world has become) and the drugs in many cases will be essential for survival for a significant fraction of the humans that make it through the initial event.

Spoons · #98 (**permalink**) 10-July-2009, 08:25 AM

Very interesting direction this thread is taking. Before it gets yanked back on course...

Re this scenario - I wouldn't want to endure it, but I suppose there could be some benefits to natural selection getting a second crack of the whip. It's unfortunate that humans have become so dependent on pharmaceuticals.

I know it's just a wacky comedy film, but I remember seeing Idiocracy and wondering if it's really that unlikely a scenario. After all, I know where I live, and it seems a common phenomenon, the less intelligent citizens do seem to find love and multiply much more prolifically than the more scholarly types.

I must read this "The Stand" that's been referred to. It sounds like a gripping read.

xfahctor · #99 (**permalink**) 10-July-2009, 04:40 PM

Well, what interesting directions and turns this thread has taken. I again want to take a moment and thank everyone who has responded, I do sincerely apreciate it. My initial purpose was to pose a theory I stumbled on, one I found rediculous at best. Always intersting to see where such discussions end up though.
Thanks again guys. I love this forum, who says scientists are boring? lol.

Gillianren · #**100** (**permalink**) 10-July-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoons

I know it's just a wacky comedy film, but I remember seeing Idiocracy and wondering if it's really that unlikely a scenario. After all, I know where I live, and it seems a common phenomenon, the less intelligent citizens do seem to find love and multiply much more prolifically than the more scholarly types.

If you can believe XKCD, it isn't true. (http://xkcd.com/603/) I'd like to see his cites, though, I'll admit.

Quote:

I must read this "The Stand" that's been referred to. It sounds like a gripping read.

Gripping, yes. And long. I read fast, and I read a lot, and it usually takes me a couple of days. I also have the ability to read all day, as I don't have anything better to do with my time. My advice is don't read it if you're already not feeling well. Under no circumstances read it when you're home from work with a cold.

Spoons · #**101** (**permalink**) 11-July-2009, 02:32 AM

Ah, so that's where that little concept popped from. I saw that a week or so when it came out, forgot about it and it seems stowed it away under sub-conscious. (Got to love XKCD - today's one is nice, always love those "this page left intentionally blank" gags)

I'm at home right now, and have been for the last two days, with a cold. Luckily I've been told off for going shopping in my bathrobe, or I may have picked it up before I got your warning. Thanks. The purchase is on my "to do" list though.

Gillianren · #**102** (**permalink**) 11-July-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoons

Ah, so that's where that little concept popped from. I saw that a week or so when it came out, forgot about it and it seems stowed it away under sub-conscious. (Got to love XKCD - today's one is nice, always love those "this page left intentionally blank" gags)

It's one of very few things I read online on a regular basis.

Quote:

I'm at home right now, and have been for the last two days, with a cold. Luckily I've been told off for going shopping in my bathrobe, or I may have picked it up before I got your warning. Thanks. The purchase is on my "to do" list though.

Well. It turns out I'm psychic, then. Well done, me! No, I do really recommend the book, and I do think King is an excellent writer--some of his other stuff is just fine when you're sick, though I'd steer clear of The Tommyknockers no matter how you're feeling. It's just that, in my family, we seem to end up sick at some point during any reading/viewing of The Stand. My sister ended up watching the miniseries while she had a kidney infection!

Spoons · #**103** (**permalink**) 11-July-2009, 07:47 AM

Could it be? Superstition on a science based forum?

Gillianren · #**104** (**permalink**) 11-July-2009, 09:21 AM

Pattern observation. I actually keep notes, believe it or not. What I suspect happens is a combination of the psychosomatic and the fact that, believe it or not, I read Stephen King for comfort. So I'm kind of not feeling well, and I think, hey, Stephen King! Only it's The Stand, and I'm going to die of Captain Trips. I should just read Bag of Bones. (In case you're curious, the first time I read The Stand, I ended up with a nasty case of heatstroke unrelated to the book but related to my ex-step-aunt Billie, who did not understand the concept of "getting out of the sun.")

estellawatch · #**105** (**permalink**) 11-July-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classic

The Encke's Comet 100,000 tons of ice and dust was proposed many years ago.

I'm still holding out for Tesla and his test firing of transmitter in 1908. Overshooting the North Pole during Peary's attempt to reach the North Pole.

I am so surprised that no one has taken this Post more seriously ...you may be Sorry you didn"t perhaps ? Tesla was A Genius .way Ahead of His Brief History {but notable }in Time ...Nicola was a very Naughty Boy and even he could not have predicted what would happen let alone what did ?.
Needless to say He may have gone a little in sane in the interim . He would Not Want the World to Know especially in his life time ..but if they give him the credit for this ,,they may also have to give Him the credit he should have received for Many Other Projects ..!!! I just went to the bother to sign in and join ..Just to Add this reply I felt compelled to do So ..
Thanks for the Interest for an event of so long forgotten Ago...Or is It ?

Gillianren · #**106** (**permalink**) 11-July-2009, 07:19 PM

The thing about Tesla, other than the absolutely crazy that sadly marked his later life, is that not everything he thought of worked. Not everything he said he made work worked. Brilliant? Oh, yes. Indisputably. Everything some people would have you believe? No. Not really.

Spoons · #**107** (**permalink**) 12-July-2009, 08:19 AM

He was an absolutely fascinating character. I found somewhere, a few years back, a copy of his mini-biography, maybe only 50 to 100 pages long. It was a great read.

He went through quite a bit as a youth and was extremely ill. I suspect that sort of experience could have a profound impact on the way one absorbs the world about them and as a result, the way one thinks. He was an innovator, which is a path fraught with danger, so he was bound to have failures.

There's always controversy somewhere nearby when Tesla gets raised in forums.

Kelfazin · #**108** (**permalink**) 12-July-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estellawatch

I am so surprised that no one has taken this Post more seriously ...you may be Sorry you didn"t perhaps ? Tesla was A Genius .way Ahead of His Brief History {but notable }in Time ...Nicola was a very Naughty Boy and even he could not have predicted what would happen let alone what did ?.
Needless to say He may have gone a little in sane in the interim . He would Not Want the World to Know especially in his life time ..but if they give him the credit for this ,,they may also have to give Him the credit he should have received for Many Other Projects ..!!! I just went to the bother to sign in and join ..Just to Add this reply I felt compelled to do So ..
Thanks for the Interest for an event of so long forgotten Ago...Or is It ?

I'm trying to understand this, are you saying you support the theory that Tesla created the Tunguska event?

R.A.F. · #**109** (**permalink**) 12-July-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estellawatch

...they may also have to give Him the credit he should have received for Many Other Projects ..!!!

Please be specific...what "other projects" did Tesla not receive credit for?

Spoons · #**110** (**permalink**) 12-July-2009, 03:29 PM

It not uncommon to read on the internet claims that Edison took credit for a lot of Tesla's work.

Not sure if it's kosher to drop the link to this site, but I just googled "tesla light bulb" and the first link I found reeled off quite a list of his inventions.

I don't know that it's the case (some supporters of his appear rather fanatical) maybe they're attributing credit to him for some conceptual work he'd done?

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