I don't know anything about astronomy or all these technical terms but I have a question about the lunar conspiracy thing. Who filmed or took pictures of the astronauts steping onto the moon and who filmed or took pictures of the departure? I'm not saying I do or do not believe the conspiracy, I'm just curious. Thanks!

NASA thought, correctly, that the moment of the first time man set foot on the lunar surface would be one to record for posterity and for the television audiences worldwide. On Apollo 11, Armstrong had a string he pulled once he exited the lunar module, which deployed an arm with a TV camera on it. This filmed his descent to the surface.

The external pictures of the LM blasting off from the lunar surface were taken by video cameras on the lunar rovers, which were left behind on the Moon. The cameras were operated by remote control from Earth. On Apollos 11, 12, and 14, on which no rovers were taken to the Moon, there were no pictures taken of the lunar surface ascent.

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"Too low they build, who build beneath the stars". - Edward Young, 1745

Welcome, Rayschick!

The first footage of Neil Armstrong stepping onto the moon's surface was taken with a camera mounted to the side of the lander. Armstrong extended the arm holding the camera and activated it from the hatch before he exited the lander.

The footage of the module take off was only done on the last three (I believe) missions. Those were the missions with the lunar rover, the little "car" they drove around in. The rover had a camera on it that could be controlled from Earth (this camera was used for a lot of the footage of the astronauts working on the moon's surface, as well).

Because of the signal delay between the moon and the Earth, the camera operator had to start sending the command to "pan up" to the camera a couple seconds before the module actually launched. I believe that he missed the ascent almost entirely on Apollo 15, got a lot better on Apollo 16, and nailed it almost perfectly on Apollo 17. If you ever see footage of the module ascending, it's probably from Apollo 17.

I'm sure somebody else here will be able to fill in the details (or correct any errors I might've made)!

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SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2008 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

Here is picture of a mock-up of the Lunar Module and the MESA (Modular Equipment Storage Assembly) deployed as it would be on the Moon. Notice the camera pointing at the descent ladder. Before Armstrong descended the ladder he released the MESA pod which was folded into the LM.

Here is a close-up of the camera mounted on the MESA.

Rayschick, find someone who has the DVD of the HBO miniseries From the Earth to the Moon (Tom Hanks and Ron Howard's docudrama on the Apollo missions). The middle episode, which deals with Armstrong and Apollo 11, shows how the TV camera was operated (a pull cord and spring-loaded door adjacent to the ladder). The last episode, 12, deals with how the TV camera on the rover was panned up, thus showing the ascent stage of Apollo 17's LEM (LM) blasting off. Due to the delay caused by the distance between Earth and moon, the camera's earth-bound director/operator had to start the camera move about six seconds before blast off. But he got the shot. As a TV technician, I can appreciate how cool that is.

FTETTM is dramatic recreation, despite how well it was done. I'm sure there are books on the subject, as well as documentary footage available.

1.3 seconds, to be precise, which is the time taken for radio waves to reach the moon from the Earth.

I believe the move was attempted on all three missions that had a rover, but they only got it right on Apollo 17. Just as well, really, otherwise we'd have missed out on a cracking piece of mission footage.

Of course, HBers would have you believe that they miraculously got it right on the first attempt. The logic they use is that only one mission record includes such good footage, ergo only one attempt was made. The other failed efforts were actually doing something else...

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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." The Doctor, Doctor Who: The Face of Evil.

How could they manually pan the camera with a 1.3 second signal delay in both directions? Any adjustments they made would be too late. It seems the only way it could have been done would be to start panning early and then move it blindly based on the anticipated acceleration rate and known distance from the camera. Is that presumably how they did it?

For the liftoff, yes. During the rest of the missions the operator had to react to what he saw on the screen, and there are many examples of panning too far, too late, not soon enough, etc.

And you'll probably be asked to change your nick.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

In addition to what Jay has said, practice practice practice... These guys had drilled for a long time to do this kind of bizzo. It's not really surprising that their anticipations were better than one might expect.

It is my understanding that, although Apollos 15, 16 and 17 all had cameras mounted on the rovers, only Apollos 16 and 17 had the ability to pan up. The operator mistimed the ascent on 16 but got in perfect on 17. The video you always see of the LM ascent is from Apollo 17.

Apollo 15's camera head broke on the flight. It was designed to be capable of tilting, but the tilt function was having problems. The decided not to tilt it at all rather than risk breaking the other degree of freedom.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

I preferred the "You left me behind! You ungrateful..." theory.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?

I can't remember at the moment where I read this, but I read a description of the guy doing it. It was the same guy for all three, and for all I know, he may have been the only LRV camera operator in mission control. At any rate, for the pan-up he used a very simple device to get it right -- a stopwatch. Nowdays they'd probably program a computer to command the pan-up, but I suspect it would have been considered wasteful at the time to use a computer for the job when a person could do it perfectly well and it wasn't even a high-priority task.

Incidentally, I believe Apollo 17 was the only mission to have placed a color TV camera on the LRV, so if you see color in the liftoff footage, it's definitely that one. The footage turns up a lot because although it was of relatively little scientific significance, it's way cool! And I, for one, am glad that NASA sometimes does stuff just because it's way cool. (Like landing NEAR on Eros, for instance.)

I believe it was Ed Fendell, and on 15 and 16 he was a bit out with the timing of the pan so 17 was a fitting occasion for third time lucky.

I vaguley remember someone saying that that shot was obviously someone pulling up a model on a wire and that it must be fake because they did not see any exhaust flame :roll:

Yeah, that's laymen who don't realise that exshaust plumes from hypergolic propellents are generally colourless.

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I've heard that a few times as well. They also say that the video ends abruptly before the LM moves completely out of the frame because they've reached the 'ceiling' and no longer have the headroom to continue the shot. They'll sometimes include a comment like "this happens in every sequence showing the LM lifting off from the Moon" not realizing that there is only one such video, that being from Apollo 17.

They must not have watched the entire clip since it shows the ascent module pitching over and you can see the flame inside the engine.

In this clip the ascent module is in frame until the end.

Of course you are correct. The video clip that is commonly seen on TV is an edited version that stops well before the LM pitches over. You really didn't expect the HBs to do something like research did you?

No, that would be expecting too much! I know thinking and research tend to unsettle their prejudices, but you'd think they'd get tired of being so easily proven wrong time and time again.