As so vividly illustrated in the gulf war. The Americans can pin-point any spot on earth and take excellent photographs.
It wouldnt cost a lot to send a satelite into orbit around the moon.
They know the exact location the moon landings took place.
Get a few snaps of the flag still fluttering. The Moon buggies rusting.
The empty coke cans...whatever. It will still be there.
It wold be rather poignant to see. It would shut up all the skeptics like me
Easily done!...........but rather Dontfinkso.

Yes it would.

There should be no intact flags on the moon.

But where's the actual benefit? Going to the Moon simply to shut some people up seems like a bloody big waste of money to me.

Be patient. China's sending actual people there soon. Perhaps skeptics will believe them when they get there.

Oh, and welcome to the board.

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bunk: Empty talk; nonsense.
de·bunk: To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham, or exaggerated claims of.
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Not to mention that it wouldn't be fluttering anyway.

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SeanF

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The contents of this post are ©2009 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

Don;'t forget that all the conspiracists will say is that they faked the photographs.

As said beforte, its a waste of time and a large sums of money to do something to change the minds of a few dozen morons.

Yeah, true conspiracists base their lives on this stuff. Short of sending them to the moon, there is no way to convince them.

Heck, if I were the PTB, and I had faked the Apollo program, I wouldn't waste money going back to the moon to shut people up... I'd shut the people up at the source.

If there was a conspiracy, why are Dave Percy, Bart Sibrel, The Dark Lord, Ralf Rene et al. still alive?!?! Better yet, why is the conspiracy stuff still on the net?

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bunk: Empty talk; nonsense.
de·bunk: To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham, or exaggerated claims of.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/eddo/images/fredheadtsp.gif

If you don't believe the photos taken from lunar surface and orbit from 30 years ago, why would you believe the ones taken now? If NASA was to somehow put a super-high-res spy sattelite in orbot around the moon and photograph all the sites, the conspiracy theorists will just claim those photos are faked too.

At least the flag at the Apollo 17 should still be standing, if not fluttering. The last view we had before the battery on the rovers camera died it remained standing after the ascent stage lifted off.

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

The pole might still be there, but the flag would have long disintegrated.

HEY! Now there's an idea! I'd like my tax dollars to go to that.

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You know, we may be on to something....

NASA claimed the flags would last for hundreds of years, so other than micrometeorites punching some holes or knocking them down, I would expect them to still be there.

freddo wrote:

Quote:

The pole might still be there, but the flag would have long disintegrated.

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

Are you sure? That's not my understanding. They're only nylon flags:

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bunk: Empty talk; nonsense.
de·bunk: To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham, or exaggerated claims of.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/eddo/images/fredheadtsp.gif

The flags were only made of nylon. The UV radiation, unmitigated by an atmosphere on the moon, would have disintegrated them over the course of 30-plus years.

I'm not sure about 'the moon buggies rusting' though. :-s

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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams

"Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith

I'm estimating the cost of that mission at somewhere around $400 million. I don't have that much on me.

I haven't seen anything from NASA that says the flags would last 100 years. They're made of nylon, and as any sailor can tell you, sunlight really does a number on nylon. The UV knocks holes in the polymer. I don't expect the dyes in the stripes to last very long either -- they fade.

If you want to see something your best bet is an LM descent stage.

It's inevitable that the Apollo sites will be imaged as soon as accidentally feasible. We're probably not going to build anything specifically to do it, but as soon as we build something for some other purpose, that can do it, it'll be done.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

And that's because imaging Apollo would be sightseeing, not science. There is enough whining about space funding when it has a clear purpose...

Just assuming that NASA or some other Space Agency did build a probe specifically to show the remanents of the Apollo missions on the moon then, the HBs will say it was staged, so maybe it would be better if it happened by chance. Actually they'll say it was staged no matter what. But to the public in general it would probably make a better impression. And since this 'Apollo Conspirancy Theory' is irritatingly becoming more and more commonplace that's what would matter.

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Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

Without an atmosphere how would they disintergrate? The colour might fight from exposure but the material should be intact shouldn't it?

UV is ionizing radiation. As such it attacks the characteristic molecular structure of polymers like nylon, destroying the bonds between individual molecules. When enough of those have been broken, the fabric no longer has enough structural strength to hold itself together.

The reason I mentioned sailors is that the first thing they teach you about nylon sails is that the sun does a number on them. Air is fine, but if you keep a sail attached to the mast all the time instead of stowing it in a cover when not in use, it will disintegrate over time.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

$400 million for no other reason than to satisfy a few people like Catfink and slow the sales of Sibrel's books? What a great idea. After that we can spend another $400 million to convince a few more people that Paul McCartney is still alive. It's only money. :wink:

Given the lack of an oxidising atmosphere I think you are right to query this....

Yeah sure. People are complaining because America spends half a billion on probes to Mars to do some excellent science whe it should be feeding the hungry, and yet at the same time they think it's fine to spend that amount of money in a futile attempt to satisfy a bunch of delusional fanatics who have yet to hear of critical thinking. NASA's got better things to do.

Perhaps A11's flag is preserved if it was blown over and covered in dust. This may protect it from UV.

They would probably claim their whole trip was faked in a giant vacuum sound? stage with some sort of simulator used to con them into believing they were in a rocket to the moon. Based on my impression of their intelligence, I suspect they would probably claim the reduced gravity was produced by putting them in a centrifuge and running it in backwards (foward makes things heavier, reverse must make them lighter, right?). They can always expand the conspiracy to include everyone up to everyone except themselves and come up with some sort of scenario that satisfies their beliefs.

AHEM...

I think we're all forgetting about SMART-1 here... Coffee-table sized objects will be it's resolution limit, so it will easily be able to see the LM's and hopefully rovers also.

Also it's from an "independent" agency, which will be no comfort to the HBers, but they will never believe anway...

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How long will it take for Smart-1 to reach the moon?

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Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

Less time than it will take "Cantfink" to return and actually try to support his/her assertions, I wager.

THAT I am sure of , I ask because I got tired of checking the Smart-1 page at the ESA site and couldn't find an estimate on how long it would take the Smart-1 to get to the moon, since it's using Solar Powered Ion engines, I guess it will take a while......

[Editted for clarity]

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Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

Clue in a bonehead novice...Just why would the flag have disintegrated? Micrometeroids? Radiation? Just curious. ops:

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Read JayUtah's reply earlier in the thread.