Actually if you'd look at one of the stereo images you'd see the terrain isn't flat at all; that's just an illusion of the 2 dimensional nature of the individual images, which is why the rover has stereo pairs of navigation cameras built-in. The rock formation you see in both images is at the crest of a small incline, it drops off after that and some distance later your "mystery rock" appears. There's a large hill/mountain in the far distance, but there's yet another crest before that where the darkest and most distant large rocks appear.

This would all make sense to you if you would or could view the one of the stereo images. Here's a website that can teach you both the parallel (for the second version posted by eburacum45) or the cross eye viewing techniques:
http://www.vision3d.com/3views.html

The only way I can see to explain this mystery without a move , is that the object is in a crater down below the other rocks and just behind them. And I think there is one ! The fist picture has been taken from above so we can see this object which is probably very low in fact . The other picture has been taken form farther and from a smaller angle so the object cannot be seen any more.

The rovers come with stereo pairs of cameras built-in; nearly every picture taken with the navigation camera or pan camera has a stereo pair available for use. The rover did not push the rock over, it's simply not in the field of view by the time the rover moved to the second picture's location.

Actually, it does, that's just a third location for the rover to take a picture. Perspective explains it all.

I reject that this has been debunked.

Haven't you ever seen an advertisement for either miracle hair or weight loss products, where they inevitably have a "before" and "after" photo? Haven't you ever noticed they are NEVER from the same angle? The only time you see a proper before vs. after comparison photo is when the image is taken from the same angle, with the same lighting. Otherwise, they just choose convenient angles which manipulate you into seeing what they want you to see. The "before" photos exaggerate whatever the problem area is, and the "after" photos hide them by choosing a flattering angle and lighting.

Surely you've figured this out for yourself? If you think yourself so "un-gullible" as to have "figured out" the NASA conspiracy, you're also clever enough to understand how photographic manipulation works.

And if you're clever enough to understand how that works with weight loss and hair restoration ads, maybe you're also clever enough to understand how that same principle applies to THIS situation.

The simplest explanation is usually right one. Really, you think it's simpler to believe that there is actually life on Mars, AND that NASA is hiding that from the public? Or that photographs taken from two different angles show different lines of sight?

Use your brain McFly. THINK

Rob

For those interested in names, below is a partial list of some of the more notable people involved in the Disclosure Project:

* Nick Pope: British Ministry of Defense Official
* Dr. Roberto Pinotti: Italian UFO expert
* Astronaut Gordon Cooper (deceased)
* Astronaut Edgar Mitchell
* Monsignor Corrado Balducci (deceased)
* Dr. Carol Rosin
* Dan Willis: US Navy, Communications
* Admiral Lord Hill-Norton: Five-Star Admiral, Former Head of the British Ministry of Defense (deceased)
* Gordon Creighton: Former British Foreign Service official
* Dr. Robert Wood: McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer
* Dr. Alfred Webre: Former Senior Policy Analyst, Stanford Research Institute
* Denise McKenzie: Former SAIC employee
* Colonel Philip J. Corso: US Army (deceased)
* Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/AEC (ret.)
* Lieutenant Walter Haut: US Navy
* Dr. Hal Puthoff
* Dr. Eugene Mallove
* Lieutenant Colonel Thomas E. Bearden: US Army (ret.)
* John Callahan: FAA Head of Accidents and Investigations
* Larry Warren: Security Officer, RAF Bentwaters Woodbridge, NATO
* Major George A. Filer III: US Air Force (ret.)
* John Maynard: Defense Intelligence Agency (ret.)
* Captain Robert Salas: US Air Force, SAC Launch Controller
* Don Phillips: US Air Force, Lockheed Skunkworks, design engineer/CIA contractor, worked with Kelly Johnson
* Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown: US Air Force (ret.) Office of Special Investigations, Project Grudge
* Mark McCandlish: US Air Force, conceptual artist for Rockwell X-30 and HYSTP programs
* James Kopf: US Navy/NSA Crypto Communications
* Major General Vasily Alexeyev: Russian Air Force

Now back to topic, if someone can explain to me how the third image I posted is possible without major changes of the angle and perspective of the other objects as well, I would be more than happy to hear that - here is the post where I would also be happy if someone managed to supply the requested evidence supporting what you are claiming to be the solution: Object moving between stones on Mars . Explain THIS skeptics!

I can understand the object dissapearing because of changes in the rovers position when taking the first and second photo, but not how the object can move to such a large degree on the third image I posted without also moving the other objects in terms of perspective to a similar degree - indeed it looks to me like there is a slight slope the front rocks are on in the third photo, which would hide the object on both the first two as far I can see, assuming the object in question is behind that slope as it seems like. There is also a black rock appearing that does not seem to be around in the other images, on image 3, in the place the object in question is seen in image 1.

Sure it does. So the rover moved twice, and the 'moving' rock is further away than it seemed at first... (BTW I think you forgot the image tags around the third picture in your first post. For clarity you might edit it, or ask a moderator to do it.)

__________________
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

Just out of interest maggador why do you think that NASA would be covering up the existence of life on Mars?
As has been stated before the discovery of life on another planet would only help NASA. Their budget would skyrocket with this discovery and I don't think small slow moving rock creatures are much of a threat to world security so no need for a cover-up there.

__________________
Talkie Toaster: The question is this: given that God is infinite and that the universe is also infinite, would you like a toasted tea-cake?

I know the camera is a stereo one but did you used these stereo pair to do your "sterogram" ?

(maybe they want to protect us from a pink eye of mordor...)

__________________
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

__________________
Talkie Toaster: The question is this: given that God is infinite and that the universe is also infinite, would you like a toasted tea-cake?

You can still see the mystery rock in the upper picture. Look for just the tip of it to be showing near the right end of the rock on its left.

Mystery solved.

__________________
Friendly Rabid Atheists (mostly)

What mystery?

Move along, nothing to see here.

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Talkie Toaster: The question is this: given that God is infinite and that the universe is also infinite, would you like a toasted tea-cake?

For the third picture shown, I think we can safely conclude Slang called it better than I did; the "mystery rock" is hiding behind the rock formation and probably even the crest of the hill. As you can see here, the dark rock is farther than it appears in the 2d image, and if you imagine yourself driving up closer to the rock crest you can see how the dark rock would disappear behind the crest/formation. The first attachment is in cross view, the second is in parallel

Attached Thumbnails

 

Now in parallel view.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Would you care, please, to state in unambiguous and clear terms exactly which truth is being hidden?

Please spell it out for us in plain words.

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Ach, mein Sinn, wo willst du endlich hin, wo soll ich mich erquicken? Bleib' ich hier, oder wünsch' ich mir Berg und Hügel auf den Rücken?
Bei der Welt ist gar kein Rat, und im Herzen steh'n die Schmerzen meiner Missetat, weil der Knecht den Herrn verleugnet hat.

Thanks for the input, and actually I am a photographer myself so I do know how perspectives change according to where the photo is taken from and where the different objects are located. I am trying to recreate the scene here without much success. I can make the object dissapear, but not move from not in sight, to in the middle of the picture, and then all over to the left like those three photos do. If someone can I would be more than happy to see a simple recreation of the scene with all three images represented in the recreation, that would more or less prove this solution to me as I am unable to do that myself from what I have tried so far.

Regarding NASA and what they are hiding from public, I think it is something that should be questioned considering how many witnesses there are claiming this, including NASA employees, astronauts, and other governmental employees as already mentioned, I even gave both a video and list of several of these witnesses in a previous post. I would not risk my reputation and work for "crazy" statements like that unless it was true. Also you have the photographical evidence showing NASA tampering with images, and also evidence of what seem to be both current life, and remains of previous life, on the Moon and Mars - a good site to go through is all the photographic evidence on the site linked to as the source for the photos in my first post. Go there, check "The Evidence" list and go through every single report and photo and see for yourself.

I also find it curious that the quality of the images themselves are so crappy - even the moon photos in the late 60s were better! I know, I know, its because its for "scientific measuring" and what not and not to show us down here anything worthy quality wise with sharp colors and great clarity etc... that wouldnt help the scientists in any way :1

Yes, all stereo pairs I'm doing on this thread will be done that way unless otherwise specified.

Maggador:
The link of the trailer in your post(#17) is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous.
they should find a hobby more suitable, like DisneyLand for instance.

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it shows you how much i know....not much i guess----"sohhfly"

I did, and all I saw was the same old mis-interpretation of the usual photos. Nothing new or Earth shattering just pixel anomalies and other reproduction errors. Where is the 'evidence'?

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Talkie Toaster: The question is this: given that God is infinite and that the universe is also infinite, would you like a toasted tea-cake?

Alright, here's a little animation that I think explains the motion nicely. As I corrected myself in my previous post, Slang was right. The dark rock moves behind the others as well as the crest itself. In the first frame we see the more distant rock in the middle of the formation, as has been explained by the stereograms. You can see in the second frame we're closer to the rock formation, obscuring the farther away dark rock behind the closer and larger rocks on the left side of the formation. In the final frame we're farther away (more rocks in the foreground, rock formation is smaller) and further to the left with respect to the previous images, so we see the farther dark rock once again.

NGCHunter:
Thanks for the animation, that actually helped out, seems you are right on the moving rover being the reason for the "moving object" so I take my hat off for you on that It gave me a much clearer view of the perspectives and now I can see how that would fit correctly due to the slope etc. And I am not here to argue or try pull things out endlessy, simply trying to find the answers and right now I am sure I got the right answer to the original question.

Sohh Fly:
Are you referring to the witness whom worked for NASA testifying in the clip? Or the rest of it? I only posted it for the part of the guy who worked for NASA and says he saw the bases on the Moon himself on photos (and these have later been removed and blurred out etc in locations they were present). Interestingly enough, as mentioned, another NASA employee states she was actually working with doing that kind of "polishing" of photos from Mars. I still have a problem understanding why they would testify in court under oath about such things if it was just lies, why would so many governmental employees from these institutions make such claims and risk all credibility if it was not true? Most of them live normal lives and are not "alien nuts", we are not talking about this Raelian guy here (thank god).

Has anyone considered the possibility that the dark rock is the fin of a martian sand shark?

Maggador
The whole clip stinks,but yes I myself wonder why some people say the things they say.Maybe they like the sound of snap,crackle,pop?
And working for NASA doesn't make them exempt from fairy tales.
Most of them live mormal lives and are not "alien nuts"but some are just nuts.

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it shows you how much i know....not much i guess----"sohhfly"

You seem to be saying that you believe these witnesses because they seem like "normal" people. To me, that's not enough basis to believe what they say. Like you mentioned, humans have the capacity to believe in all kinds of things that don't exist, and these beliefs can be found in a broad range of people, from "normal" to "crazy." This has no relevance to whether what they believe is true or not.

Extraordinary claims should be accompanied by convincing evidence. I have never seen any well documented evidence to convince me of these claims. I only hear a lot of hearsay, third party accounts, and the weak argument that strong evidence is not available because of a conspiracy to suppress it.

In short, the UFO movement is our modern day equivalent to the Greek's Mount Olympus mythology.


Rob

The thing is that at first glance we perceive the rock to be pretty close to the other two rocks. My guess is that Mars' very thin atmosphere gives almost no atmospheric distortion, making it very hard to judge distances and as a result of that size. This is similar to the effect of the "hills on the Moon", in that they're actually mountains that are much farther away than you'd think.

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Spread the Love!

robross:

No, of course I do not believe someone just because they say something. But when we have this amount of people, all ready to testify in court - which is indeed what they want and the whole point of their project, then it makes me wonder more than what a normal nut would walk around telling his friends and such. Here we are dealing with mostly intelligent and down to earth kind of people having a solid background within the government, claiming that the governments are hiding things, covering up the truth, that they personally have been involved with it, and that they want the governments to come forth and admit it and "open the box" so to speak, which is the goal of the project as far I understand.

Here is a CNN clip of Edgar Mitchell, one of the men who supposedly was on the moon, regarding the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5upFvipUAXs

The bottom line is, if they have nothing to hide, why do the Governments not want to open the files for the public? Why is the material they have released in the past so tremendously censored and blacked out? Makes no sense if there is nothing to the claims.

Are you implying that he wasn't?

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"One does not require alien ruins in order to absorb a profound sense of wonder and mystery from the moon. That our civilization had actually visited it is miracle enough." Jason Roberts

...that they want the governments to come forth and admit it and "open the box" so to speak, which is the goal of the project as far I understand.

No, the goal of the project is to keep those pundits in front of cameras and microphones so they can continue to make appearances and sell their books. Note how they don't seem to accept the possibility that there really is nothing being hidden. The "fact" of government coverup is a foregone conclusions.

Here is a CNN clip of Edgar Mitchell, one of the men who supposedly was on the moon, regarding the subject...

And you'll note that he's never seen a UFO and never himself seen any evidence of government cover-ups. One of his friends allegedly told him there was something being hidden. For years Mitchell never gave out that guy's name. When finally pressed to do it, the guy said Mitchell had misunderstood him -- he was unable to uncover UFO evidence because he hadn't looked.

Ed Mitchell's having walked on the Moon does not exempt him from having to provide evidence of his claims.

The bottom line is, if they have nothing to hide, why do the Governments not want to open the files for the public?

If there is nothing being hidden, what are governments supposed to do when people demand to see what's hidden? If there are things being hidden (often for good reasons such as national defense), but they aren't those things the UFO nuts are going on about, then why should we just throw upon the barn door?

Why don't you post your name, address, birthdate/place, and Social Security number here? You have nothing to hide, right?

Makes no sense if there is nothing to the claims.

Have you considered the possibility that there are other things in the documents that ought not to be publicly revealed, besides that which is surmised by UFO pundits?

__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

I do not know if he was or not, all I know is that I am quite sure a lot of the moon footage was staged, faked and a hoax. Some of it has been proven, like the mentioned astronauts staging a fake distance from Earth on the first trip.

So, I can only wonder, and considering images are faked, then I can wonder about the whole missions themselves, but I do believe its possible they went there and faked the images for other reasons such as the ones I mentioned some posts further up.

regards