I've seen people claim that, based on long debunked misconceptions. Do you have anything new?

Please present what you consider to be proof.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

So do you believe they went to the moon or not ? Maggador
which is it?

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it shows you how much i know....not much i guess----"sohhfly"

Some of it has been proven, like the mentioned astronauts staging a fake distance from Earth on the first trip.

You really haven't read much of this board, have you.

...I do believe its possible they went there and faked the images for other reasons such as the ones I mentioned some posts further up.

Hilarious. Do you realize that you've cited as an authority a man you say may have lied through his teeth about going to the Moon? He's honorable when he tells you what you want to know about UFOs, but then you turn around and disavow his other claims when they conflict with your desired belief.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

I watched the entire 2 hour video. I was not impressed. First of all, you mis-characterized the "witnesses." None of them were "high-ranking" officials in any agency. Many of them seem to have the political motive of banning weapons in space.

The biggest issue is the moderator/host made some provably false statements. He said they have alien craft that can go faster than the speed of light. That is not possible in this particular universe we live in. He made a few other oddball claims about zero-point energy that are also invalid.

So no, I do not think this is any kind of strong proof that there are aliens among us.

Rob

Maggador:
1 more thing,are you satisfied with the answers given to you about magical rock's on Mars?

The CT's should do a little less talking and alot more listening for their own sake.

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it shows you how much i know....not much i guess----"sohhfly"

You're talking about the Mars Anomaly Research site? Sorry, but I'm not impressed. Here's a page where he finds civilization in compression artifacts:

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/e...v-evidence.htm

The funny thing is that he even mentions it:

The truth is that these are unsurprising image artifacts. In another thread here, JonClarke presented some more near to Earth examples of image artifacts:

hale crater ESAs images

Unfortunately, this type of error is pretty typical of the claimed evidence on that site.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Sohh Fly: As I said, I do not know if they went there or not, there are evidence supporting both possibilities, as I said the image tampering makes me somewhat skeptic, at least I wonder why they had to hoax footage, and I presented some of my theories on why this could be earlier. And Yes, I already showed my appreciation and thanks to Hunter in post 52 for his work of turning the photos into a animation that made things much clearer, here Object moving between stones on Mars . Explain THIS skeptics!

JayUtah: No, I have not, I am new here as I suppose you have noticed with my few posts, so I have not had the time to go through the thousands of posts already here, in my initial post I was posting about things I did not find mentioned in the board (the moving rock), the other things I mentioned because I was asked and so on, never claimed I have checked any other threads about those topics. I would love to hear an explanation on that faked footage though and what was "really" going on if you happen to know that (the astronauts faking the earth distance).

Also, I am quite aware of my contradiction mentioning Mitchell as a credible source, but the reason for that is simply because I believe he is trying to gently tell us whats going on, of course he would not go straight out and say "Hey, we lied, its all a big joke, I never went to the moon, and we faked the footages" , but maybe he will leave some notes on that in his will or something And again, it is possible that he went to the moon as well, like I have said, I dont know if they actually got there or not, I am more interested in why they faked footage and keep doing so, not only from the moon but Mars etc too. I have seen a lot of debunkers on these topics in many different forums through the years before by the way, and I am not impressed on the explanations, some of them I find quite absurd and hilarious (such as the C on the stone on the moon and the ground which on later publications of the same photo magically have dissappeared, the lighting issues and shadow weirdness caused by "reflective moon" and "light from Earth" in addition to the Sun, explanations on the color changes on Mars photos, the extremely bad quality of all photos since the moon landing even now with the most modern technology it barely beats what they got in the first visit to mars in the 70s etc)

At the same time I have learned many interesting and new things, and that is why I am here too, not to try to seem like I know the real truth and you do not, but rather to see if you may have any good explanations that I can accept on such issues and anomalies - and as far as this topic goes I am satisfied with the explanation and I accept it as being the moving of the rover causing the "moving rock" effect.

Im not sitting with my tinfoil hat pulled tightly down over my face here, I am just skeptical and curious about certain things and at present I believe certain things from the evidence I have seen, as well as what I have experienced in my OWN life relating to these matters (I have seen UFOs up close myself, have parents retired from high positions in the governments whom have shared things with me, many friends in high positions, and I have no reason to believe they are lying to me about the things they have personally told me, although I can not rule anything out thus I am searching and questioning instead of just blindly beliving what I am being told by either side, whether that is the "skeptics" or the "believers" - I find the best thing to do is look at both sides of the coin).

Van Rijn: The footage of the astronauts faking the distance from Earth is seen in A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, among several other documentaries on the subject.

Rob Ross:
Personally I consider people like astronauts, majors, generals, vatican theologists, chiefs & heads of governmental institutions, admirals, colonels, Lieutenants, Majors, etc as pretty "high-ranked". People with other titles of higher ranks are also included from various governmental institutions.

If what they claim is really true or not, I do not know for the most parts, but some things I have as mentioned personally experience with and know to be true. I have gotten to know many people from very high positions in the governments myself due to my own family background which also includes membership of several of the so called secret societies, orders and fraternities and I have been told and shown some rathers astonishing things by these people. I also have lost friends and family whom apparently told too much, including my own father and a very good friend I had for 10 years. I have personally been harassed by the governments and gotten my own things confiscated and never released back, including my computer and notes where a lot of sensitive information was stored - in the end I decided to move from the country because I got tired of all the trouble my snooping around caused me, now I have been living peacefully at various locations in south america for the last half decade without such strange problems (among other things I was accused for "computer related crimes", which was the reason they confiscated my computer, and I have no knowledge of hacking or anything like that at all)

All those things just made me more curious and got me into believing more in the possibility of such things as discussed here to be true and real, call me paranoid but when things like that happen you have to start wondering. Thus I started to research things more - the moon/mars/space thing is just the tip of the ice berg and certainly not the most interesting or important topic in this regard.

And yes I am aware many will believe I am just making that up just as they will believe the other people telling such things are making them up, I wish I was because I have lost a lot due to my involvement with the mentioned things, my father is dead and my friend missing for around 5 years now (interestingly enough from around the same time I decided things got too heavy and I left the country and went to Brazil on my own)

regards

Regarding the Mars Anomaly Research site, I certainly do not agree to the authors own theories on things, and I agree to the fact that he see too much things everywhere, but nevertheless there are a huge amount of quite interesting and official images there from both Mars and the Moon. Thus I can recommend the website to anyone interested in anomalies on Mars or Moon, as well as to anyone just generally interested in Mars and the Moon even if they do not believe in any "conspiracy stuff" as it should be pretty interesting in either case with the images alone, many images there which one would have had to dig around for hard to find oneself and luckily all are linked to the original images on NASAs own servers so they can be studied in more details etc.

Did you actually watch the video to which you posted a link? There were no generals, astronauts, admirals, nor chiefs nor heads of any governmental institutions. The highest ranked ex-military speaker was a Lt. Colonel. And no, I do not consider that "high-ranked." If you think I am in error, please post the time codes in which these people appeared.
No offense, but it seems more likely that you *are* paranoid rather than having had all these experiences. Maybe you really believe all this. I do have one honest question that may seem insensitive or non-genuine, but honestly, have you ever been diagnosed with a mental illness? I have known several people like this and they all have crazy stories like yours, but none of it ever actually happened.

Rob

Maggador, regarding your issues with the photographs from & of the moon, you really should have a look at Jay's site (linked to in his signature). It's a fantastic site, I've read a bit of it myself (though not all of it - must get onto that) and Jay is both extremely knowledgeable in many of the critical areas and a very good writer in my opinion (I have no formal education in the relevant areas of expertise but find the explanations very understandable).

I think unless you are too emotionally invested in your beliefs it could be very illuminating.

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The left hand knows full well what the right hand is doing, but quietly ignores it.

RobRoss:

Well its a couple years since I actually watched the video myself, so I cant remember exactly all of the participants. However I know whom are part of the Disclosure Project and whom are of the ranks I just said. Several of them have appeared in other documentaries and various videos expressing themselves on the topic.

Regarding myself, unfortunately I am not making it up nor am I insane to my knowledge, regarding what I say about myself I do not "believe" it, those things are facts. What people I know have told me, of course only they know if is true or not but there are several close friends and family I do not see any reason why would be lying as said.

Not sure what part of what I said you disbelief though, that I have friends and family like described, that my father is dead and my friend missing, or that I have left the country because of harassment from the governments, or that I am myself part of these orders and societies, that I have seen UFOs myself, or all of it?

Certainly I could prove all of the above, including the UFO sightings as I had other witnesses with me at two occasions. Unfortunately, doing so would not help much in this discussion nor would it be beneficial for my family and friends and most likely they would not approve of such a thing.

As far as my own private life goes you simply either have to believe it or disbelieve it and I do not really care what you do

The reason I mentioned it was to let you know I actually do have some experience that for me personally backs up a lot of what these other people mentioned are talking about, if you want to think I make that up, or that I
m simply raving mad and actually believing it, thats up for you to decide.

Best wishes!

Spoons: Thanks for the tip, I will certainly check that site out.

Actually I have my feet fairly well planted on the ground, though I like to gaze at the stars. But as I mentioned earlier, I am interested in the truth, and I have allready accepted the explanation to my first post here in this thread as solved by the people here and I am grateful for that. I am more than happy to look at the other side of the coin as I said before

Thanks again will give it a look.

There's certainly nothing wrong with thinking differently, and coming up with various alternatives to the accepted theories.

Personally I'd love to believe some of the bizarre theories I've stumbled across (I remember reading a book "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart and really liking some of the ideas in it - a lot of it made me feel a lot better about the world when I wasn't too happy personally - but that doesn't necessarily make any of it more valid than the average comic strip) but the facts and the truth are much more satisfying in my opinion.

If there's anything you don't follow on Jay's page I'm sure most of it would be well explained in the Q&A section.

Enjoy the reading!

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The left hand knows full well what the right hand is doing, but quietly ignores it.

Oh, this sounds like Sibrel's "blue sky" nonsense. It was the window itself. See here:

Blue sky through Apollo windows

Here:

http://apollohoax.proboards.com/inde...lay&thread=884

and here, discussing the video that Sibrel doesn't want you to see:

http://lokishammer.dragon-rider.org/Apollo/Apollo11/

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

nah it would still be visible, connect nearby rocks and rock in question with the lines - those should be preserved in pictures - and you will see that is is, in fact, gone

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Oh wait, you're right. I had to make an anglyph to see it Remind me to not trust my eyes when I look at single picture again.

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Thanks for the info, Im not a scientist so cant say much about the blue sky thing, for me that part would be word against word and I do not know how it would be up there.

Nor was that the part of concern in my case, I am more interested in the fact that the Earth shown in the mentioned footage seem to be tampered with - it even gets completely out of proportions as the camera at one point moves to high and apparently looks somewhat down at the transparant / image of Earth so that one part is completely distorted just as it would be if you were filming a flat 2 dimensional image. This part is not explained in any of the links you gave me, can you give some insight on this? If you do not know what I mean, here is a link to that part of the footage, it is a segment of it some 5 minutes into this video taken from the full footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzVvXdYAwuE

And whats up with the guy saying "Talk!" and immediatly the astronaut starts speaking like they are timing the amount needed to simulate the distance they were supposed to be and how long it would take for them to get the transmission over?

Also, if the answer was that simple, why did the astronauts act so violently and refused to comment when approached and asked about this segment, it was even shown to one of the astronauts. If I remember correctly, one of the astronauts hit the guy, and other one told him to get out and that he refused to comment and that he should "ask NASA because they were only passengers" ? Kinda odd thing to do if the truth was so easy to explain.

Not saying thats what was going on, but it sure looks like it, and I would be more than happy to get an explanation on the above questions and something that can back it up, if the truth is other than what it seems

Really?!

Don't trust your eyes when you look at a single picture again! (Oh, and read the thread before you respond to one of the first replies )

Someone ought to get the timing info from the original image names and contact JPL for information on Spirit drive data for those Sols, and perhaps mesh or grid information from the navcams, if they have that. (The mesh calculations might be internal to the rover, and never sent, I don't know.)

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

Is that the one where he's being called a liar and a thief?

were they actually asked about that segment in particular? Details please.

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Sorry, off-topic I know, but this is a truely awful comparison. Greek mythology served a valuable purpose in its time, and still does. I can't see the UFO movement as remotely equivalent.

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γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Can you define an 'official' image for me.

You are talking about pictures from a website that takes an image of Opportunities Heatshield, an image of Opportunities Back Shell - claims that they're the SAME object and that the differences are clear evidence of image tampering. Not even a slight effort has been made to research the facts behind these images.

If you're sure he's got images that are interesting - please show us the one you think is most convincing of something anomalous.

Let's leave the moon hoax nonsense for another thread. Hopefully you'll learn something in it.

I think this is the alternative explanation - as the lighting changes between the two pictures, the rock colour changes to blend into the background. However, the edge is still just visible. However, the "behind the other rock" explanation also has a lot going for it.

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"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head" Terry Pratchett

There's certainly a huge difference in lighting clearly visible on other rocks. It seems I was wrong in guessing that the movement of the rover alone was enough to explain this seeming anomaly. I think I had the direction of driving of the rover wrong, leading to the wrong idea.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

I edited my previous post - I had the angles wrong - but I think the top part of the "moving rock" may just be visible.

But the point is that all of the background rocks appear to have moved significantly, as even the most cursory examination shows. The fact that the "analysis" focuses on just one big rock shows they haven't thought about it at all. In fact I find it hard to match up any of the rocks in the background between the two frames, which shows just how much parallax has been introduced.



To see just how different the camera angles are, look at the small, thin, pointy rock lying just in front of the right side of the large, fractured rock in the centre of the upper image.
Now look at the same rock in the lower image - we can see much more of the right hand side of it.

Wow, that is SO COOL!

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Any comments in glorious red are to be considered in ModeratorMode.


善數, 不用籌策 (shàn shù, bù yòng chóu cè)
He who is good at counting, uses no counting tools
“A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is”
道德經, 二十七 (dào dé jīng, 27)

This is one of the most frustrating things about hoax believers. They insist that explanations come down to word against word. They do not. The light scattering effect of a polycarbonate surface is empirically verifiable by you or anyone else. The only way it comes down to word against word is if you choose not to take the time to verify it for yourself, and the fault for that lies squarely on your own shoulders.

Please provide some imagery so we can comment on this. I know you provided a link, but it is generally preferred that you put some screen caps in the post itself so we don't have to trawl through other sites.

Have you also observed the part where the Earth:

a) does not change size when they move the camera itself back from the window, indicating it is a great distance beyond it;

b) gets obscured by the edge of the window, showing clearly that it is outside it; and

c) disappears from one window to reappear in another window, indicating that not only is it outside but must be some distance away?

I suspect that what you have actually seen is the sections included in Sibrel's video. I suggest going to the original source footage (which, despite Subrel's claim, is NOT only available from him). He specifically omits the parts that make it clear they cannot be looking at a transparency on the window.

I don't hear the word 'talk', I hear a random burst of noise from the communication system. They're quite common in the air to ground audio.

What Sibrel fails to mention is that the astronauts know who he is, and they justifiably have no time for him. Would you have time for a man who made a living out of calling you a liar?

Yes, Buzz Aldrin punched him in the face. That is after he found out it was Sibrel who had lured him to interview under false pretenses and locked the door. Aldrin was calm, asked to be let out, but Sibrel hounded him (and his daughter, incidentally) with a camera crew and called him a fraud, liar and thief. If that isn't provocation I don't know what is. Immediately after being thumped Sibrel turned to the camera and said 'did you get that', rather neatly giving away his whole intent: to provoke the astronauts into some reaction he could spin to support his stuff about them faking the landings.

Consider this: Sibrel contacted all the Apollo astronauts who walked on the Moon and asked them to swear on a Bible that they did in fact go to the Moon. Three of them actually did so. Has Mr Sibrel taken this to mean they genuinely went? No. He simply says they're going to hell for lying in the face of God.

Sibrel is a fraud and a liar. I know this from personal experience. I will forward you a copy of an e-mail exchange I had with him a few years ago that bears this out if you like.

But the truth is not easy to explain, that's the problem. Space travel in general is a highly technical field that not everyone has a decent understanding of, so explaining what the layperson thinks is anomalous takes a lot of time and effort. Effort which is wasted on someone like Sibrel who has a vested interest in maintaining the hoax arguments, since they make him money.

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"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." The Doctor, Doctor Who: The Face of Evil.

That is footage that was taken during a ground-based training exercise so that the astronauts could learn how to use the camera when they got into space. It was never intended for it to be represented as actual footage from space - it was just a way to practice what they were going to be doing once they got there.

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"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear go hand in hand" - Witch Hunt by Rush

I should say - If the footage you're talking about is the same as what I've been reading about, that is footage that was taken.... (rest of above quote as written)

Sorry if I was unclear.

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"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear go hand in hand" - Witch Hunt by Rush

So, have all you skeptics been duly shock-and-awed by this fortean discovery?

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Friendly Rabid Atheists (mostly)