Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Conspiracy Theories
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #121 (permalink)  
Old 19-September-2004, 03:04 AM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,907
Default

Keep in mind that you're looking at obscenely enhanced detail. The "rotation" in my hypothesis was produced when the hardcopy was rescanned and not perfectly aligned on the scanner bed. Far from a digital watermark, I think you're looking at "print" noise that has been picked up by the scanner. The detail would not be visible to the naked eye, but it may be enough to cause the scanner to waffle between two of its discrete perception levels.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #122 (permalink)  
Old 20-September-2004, 03:54 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,466
Default

Wow, you've pieced together a lot more detail on the processing than I could come up with.

One question: what is a raster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayUtah
The sources where orientation is known to be preserved indicate that the horizontal terminator is correct.
When you say "correct", I assume you mean something like "preserving the orientation of the original image on the film".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Night G
Also, the background of the tiff image is not black but slightly green (3%). I haven't a clue as to why.
Yes, under extreme stretch the background shows green. The green appears localized to the new background, not the black that remains inside the ellipse. This suggests it has something to do with the background that was selected, perhaps being enhanced by the later scanning?
Reply With Quote
  #123 (permalink)  
Old 20-September-2004, 04:52 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,907
Default

The term "raster" comes from the television world and refers to the encoding of pictures in scan lines -- horizontal strips of varying color. That migrates to the digital imaging world where it refers simply to the grid of pixels. There are lots of esoteric sampling and filtration issues associated with the idea of a raster, but none of them is really important here. By "parallel to the raster" I simply mean that features in this photograph that would normally be expected to line up with the pixel grid, do not.

When you drag a rectangle or an ellipse in a paint program, it's always aligned with the pixel grid on the screen -- so many pixels wide and so many tall. It's extremely uncommon for a selection to be ever so slightly misaligned like that, so that corners of the rectangle lie in different rows or columns than their neighbors. That's what's happening here. The axis of the ellipse is aligned with the other imperfections, which lie at a subtle slant. That's what motivates us to hypothesize that this photo was digitized twice from successive hard copies.

By "correct orientation" I mean that the photo is presented the way the photographer framed it. Obviously in space up and down have little meaning and so photographs like this have no enforceable right or wrong orientation. But in this case attempting to track the changes in orientation of the photo help us understand all the changes that were made to it.

A digital photo remains in its initial orientation until someone changes it using software. While that is a simple operation, it is nevertheless harder than reorienting a physical photo, which requires simply turning it in your hand. If you are presented with a hardcopy of this photo, and you had no understanding of the original orientation, I believe you would naturally orient it so that the terminator was vertical. And I believe this is how the intermediate hard copy was placed on the scanner to produce the most recent digital image.

The scanner picked up the very subtle differences in the hardcopy created by the printing process and by the efforts of previous people to prepare the image for PR purposes. It also very slightly misaligned those features, as is common to the digitization of hardcopy on flatbed scanners.

I see no feature in this photograph that cannot be plausibly explained by processes known to be used in laboratories or offices where images are routinely handled. I see no hypothesized operation here that cannot be explained by PR-type tasks already seen to have been applied to Apollo and other space images by NASA PR people (e.g., removal of noise or aesthetically offending artifacts). I find this photograph in a context suggesting it is primarily for public relations use and not for scientific investigation.

The photo is mildly interesting, but otherwise unremarkable.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #124 (permalink)  
Old 21-September-2004, 01:57 PM
jrkeller's Avatar
jrkeller jrkeller is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston near the Johnson Space Center
Posts: 2,651
Default

After just changing four light bulbs in a day, I saw this article, and realized that some were done better in the past.
Reply With Quote
  #125 (permalink)  
Old 21-September-2004, 02:04 PM
ToSeek's Avatar
ToSeek ToSeek is offline
Vulcan Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Greenbelt, MD
Posts: 24,225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkeller
After just changing four light bulbs in a day, I saw this article, and realized that some were done better in the past.
Bulbs that are left on will last a lot longer than ones that are turned on and off because the latter treatment is more stressful.
__________________
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.
Reply With Quote
  #126 (permalink)  
Old 21-September-2004, 02:21 PM
Ut Ut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sydney, NS
Posts: 2,506
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToSeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkeller
After just changing four light bulbs in a day, I saw this article, and realized that some were done better in the past.
Bulbs that are left on will last a lot longer than ones that are turned on and off because the latter treatment is more stressful.
Yeah, nothing stresses me out more than being tur....wait a second. THAT's not appropriate at all!
__________________
"I'm making wheatloaf. It's like meatloaf, only with wheat"
"Isn't that just...bread?"
Reply With Quote
  #127 (permalink)  
Old 21-September-2004, 10:20 PM
Maksutov's Avatar
Maksutov Maksutov is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fifth corner of the Earth
Posts: 16,731
Default Re: HBer Eric Hufschmid posts jawdroppingly silly 21 page PD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToSeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkeller
After just changing four light bulbs in a day, I saw this article, and realized that some were done better in the past.
Bulbs that are left on will last a lot longer than ones that are turned on and off because the latter treatment is more stressful.
Then one day someone had forgotten to pay the electricity bill and...POP! Hopefully it will be a full Moon that night.

BTW, I think the electric company in that area should get some kind of recognition for dependable service! 8)
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.
Reply With Quote
  #128 (permalink)  
Old 21-September-2004, 10:39 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,466
Default

If you go back to the NSSDC link and redownload the TIFF file, you will find it no longer has the odd mask. OH MY, they've caught on and are covering their tracks!

Actually, no. I emailed the contacts for the NSSDC page and asked about the history of that picture. I was curious if anyone could confirm some of Jay's comments about the generation of that image. Well, I didn't get the answers I wanted, however I did get this response:

Quote:
I've replaced the image we had there with an "unretouched" scan of a
second generation positive we got from Johnson Space Center recently,
so you can let people know they can go back to the site and see the
image with the true (black) background. We probably did the original
image about 6 to 8 years ago, it never occurred to us that masking
out the background scratches and dust would be seen as evidence of
some type of conspiracy. Anyway, we're going to go through allthe
images we have up and replace them with scans of the higher quality
images.
Dave
--
dwilliam@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov National Space Science Data Center
I note that the new file is still oriented with the terminator vertical, and stretching the new image with the same contrast enhance shows blue instead of green, no oval mask, but still scan line patterns.
Reply With Quote
  #129 (permalink)  
Old 22-September-2004, 05:01 PM
Night G's Avatar
Night G Night G is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 52
Default

Thanks Irishman...mystery solved. 6 to 8 years ago would probably mean that image was processed with a now very out-of-date version of Photoshop and explains the "crudeness" of the technique. Time flies.
__________________
"You're not going crazy, you're going sane in a crazy world!" - The Tick
Reply With Quote
  #130 (permalink)  
Old 22-September-2004, 05:26 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,907
Default

Good job, everyone. Amazing what a little persistence, some knowledge, and asking a few questions can uncover.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today