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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 20-October-2009, 12:05 AM
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(Which brings up another question. What is that absolute, bare minimum time to get a shuttle ready for an emergency launch? Assume a life or death scenario, but still inline with the shuttle's intended purpose. Say a complete loss of life support aboard ISS.)
It depends It depends on a lot of things. Is an External Tank available? Are SRB's available? Is an orbiter available? Is a launch window available? It won't help the response time if an orbiter is currently being refitted for damaged tiles and/or blankets for the TPS, or if several avionics bays are open and instruments are in process of being replaced/repaired, etc. That said, you could try to find out more information on planned rescue missions like STS-400, but they depend(ed) on an STS system basically being ready for launch.

ETA: this question seems to me to be a good example of an "Overly vague/complex" question.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 20-October-2009, 12:37 AM
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ETA: this question seems to me to be a good example of an "Overly vague/complex" question.
You're right, the question was too vague. I guess I was assuming that all required components were available, but that's probably not realistic for an unexpected emergency.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 20-October-2009, 01:22 AM
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You're right, the question was too vague. I guess I was assuming that all required components were available, but that's probably not realistic for an unexpected emergency.
Even that leaves questions open. Is the stack already integrated? Or does any of the components still need to be moved to the VAB? It's more of a complex question than vague, I think, and there really is no answer to it. It all depends on how much of the absolutely required preparations have already been done. Which preparations are absolutely required? That's .. rocket science
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 20-October-2009, 01:45 AM
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I have to tell you, I also find it irksome to come across the belief that everyone who believes in the hoax is of necessity a proponent per se. (Oh, and that half the people who use the expression spell it wrong, but that's a different issue.) I'm perfectly aware that "I'm just asking questions" is about the most common dodge we ever experience, and that's not likely to change any time soon. But a lot of people who are led into believing this are because they don't remember their algebra, never learned physics, and so forth. Being smug about their ignorance does not help any more than being insulting at true proponents does. Evidence is what matters, and if you have to walk people through step-by-step, well, that's teaching for you.
I did a walk through of the math on my original post.

As far as being smug, on the contrary, I was not. Would people go to a doctor that forgot what some drugs were used for? No. Would people go to a web designer that forgot what HTML was? No. Would people hire a Photographer that forgot how to focus a camera? No.

I'm not trying to be insulting at all.

People can't just exclude one field of science from it's most basic requirements because they might have some issues with the organization that is sponsoring the science, and at the same time expect all the other fields to still hold to theirs.

So by what sense in any vernacular would someone expect people to make sense of a scientific field (or scientific Hoax), without a basic understanding of Algebra.

Part of being humble in any situation is knowing when you -don't- have the knowledge to debate a topic, and to either ask for help, learn what you need on your own, or bow out gracefully. Which with CTer's rarely happens from what I have seen on Baut so far.
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Old 20-October-2009, 02:08 AM
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Part of being humble in any situation is knowing when you -don't- have the knowledge to debate a topic, and to either ask for help, learn what you need on your own, or bow out gracefully. Which with CTer's rarely happens from what I have seen on Baut so far.
So how does it help to say "they have no business" discussing subjects they may not understand...although it may very well be the truth, you're not going to change minds with insults.

...and those "sitting on the fence" will wonder why the insults are necessary.
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Old 20-October-2009, 04:47 AM
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So how does it help to say "they have no business" discussing subjects they may not understand...although it may very well be the truth, you're not going to change minds with insults.

...and those "sitting on the fence" will wonder why the insults are necessary.
First, there is a world difference between "they have no business" discussing subjects they may not understand. Which would be rather insulting.

And what I had said which was "If they truly don't remember how, then they have no business sounding off on the scientific hoax in the first place."

Which is a qualified statement related to 1. They /truly/ don't remember, and 2. then they have no business /sounding off/. The last time I checked Sounding Off is a metaphor for "Proclaiming without a Basis in Substance" (the intended usage due to context) Or also for "Debating a topic of Importance to the person", both of which are quite a bit different then discussion.

"they have no business" is a bit of an over simplified summary of what was said.

Sometimes, it just doesn't pay to over simplify things, as it can't get the true meaning across. Which seems to be the point quite a few people, including myself, have been making in round about ways.
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Old 02-November-2009, 06:05 PM
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Oh, how I have come to hate this expression.

Number one, I knew people in high school who didn't learn algebra freshman year. There were remedial math classes at my high school. (Leaving out people who took algebra in eighth grade instead.)

Number two, I don't remember freshman algebra.
You know, I don't remember high school algebra at all

I know algebra perfectly well, use it in my work quite often, and occasionally teach it, but I have no memories of the class, what it looked like, or who the teacher was.
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