A lot of these claims fall into the "Anything you can do, I can do" trap. I think part of the argument for the map stems from this. We think because we "can't" acomplish some of these things without the aid of our modern tools, then nobody in the past could have possibly done them.

Remember this; up until very recently (historically speaking) we gathered all the materials, dyes, and tools, then fashioned all our clothes by hand. Can you do that today? I can't. Does that mean that the claim that our ancestors fashioned clothes is outlandish, and that aliens must have made them? Of course not. It just means tha today, I have no need for that skillset, thus don't know how to do it.

Unfortunately, many of the skill-specific techniques used in the past have been replaced, and lost in the veil of history. That doesn't mean they couldn't be done, obviously, as the evidence that it was done still stands.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
Ignore enough evidence and anything can be called mysterious or unexplained.

Yes.

A good point. I generally try to do so, but don't always remember.

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

You moderator folk usually do a fine job. Phil and Fraiser should probably pay you more.

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I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. -- Jimmy Hoffa

Its actually very exciting, a very advanced machine that worked as an astronomical calendar for the 5 known planets as well as the lunar cycles. It was incredible, it even had a users manual. you should read up on it.

however there are several texts which describe its existance as well as previous versions. It was a masterpiece, but not beyond our greek ancestor's masterful abilities.

Why would aliens work in brass gears anyway?

Or stone, for that matter.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.
Ignore enough evidence and anything can be called mysterious or unexplained.

To test our faith?

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Credis alienos extraterrenos terram visitare? Credis velocitatem super celeritatem lucis?
Credis itineres inter tempores? O tu stulte, aquire vitam.

Makes sense to me!

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Minuteman: You have now been warned!
01101001: I beg to differ. I have been amused. Not warned.

they must be bored out of their pointy little skulls.

ALL OF YOU should watch the History Channels, "Ancient Aliens", I know there is already a thread on it, but my questions were how some of you believe what was on that show was wrong, everything on that show was so opening to me, especially the map, All of you should watch it, search, Ancient Aliens, History Channel, and watch all the parts of it. SO INTERESTING

Is that show where you got your point about the "precise" ancient maps from? Do you have any specific comment on the three pages of posts in rebuttal of that allegation? You tell us to watch your source, have you looked at the links provided to you in reply?

I haven't seen this show yet, that I remember, but I would be interested in the comparison for the Australia map, whether you have an opinion on that.

I'm aware now that Antarctica seems to be the flavour of the topic, but it'd be pretty poor if they couldn't get Australia right.

I mean, it wasn't even covered in ice and the aliens apparently informed the human folk wrong about that one.

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Minuteman: You have now been warned!
01101001: I beg to differ. I have been amused. Not warned.

If somethin's on TV it's gotta be right.

Right?

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Credis alienos extraterrenos terram visitare? Credis velocitatem super celeritatem lucis?
Credis itineres inter tempores? O tu stulte, aquire vitam.

I'm just a young college kid who is very interested in these topics but don't have to do the extensive research some people do, but if you watch it, the map comparisons is eerie......and how exactly do you explain all the models of the airplanes they made, just watch it and tell me what you think.....

ALL OF YOU should watch the History Channels, "Ancient Aliens"...

You realize, of course, that the "History" Channel blatantly panders to the sensationalistic, paranormal, and largely misinformed. A program that you saw on that channel is immediately suspect.

...everything on that show was so opening to me

What did you do to assure yourself that the material presented on the program was accurate and complete? It seems to me that you just watched a TV program and believed everything that was said on it.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Do you believe every headline you read in tabloids like the Weekly World News and National Enquirer? "NASA scientists locate Heaven with the Hubble?" "Batboy to run for president?" "Elvis alive and living in a Tibetean Monastery?" Because in pandering to ratings and profits that's basically the level the History Channel has sunk to.

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Don't ya know ya gotta shock the monkey?

Belief has nothing to do with it. We say the show is wrong because of the lack of evidence that these ideas have any validity whatsoever..

There are no "short cuts" in science. Interest and belief are not sufficient for an informed opinion. You must be willing to research if you expect to be taken seriously, particularly on a science board.

I think that was intended to be "don't have time to," which may be true, but therefore trusting the History Channel implicitly is just a bad, bad idea. There are, as I think we've established, a few shows left which are still worth watching. However, by and large, I don't watch the stuff anymore, and I used to spend entire days watching the History Channel.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Same here.

It seems that a LOT of channels have gotten away from even resembling what their name implies you would find there. SciFi became "the horror movie channel" around the time that Farscape got cancelled. Honestly have no idea what they air these days. The Learning Channel now seems to be mostly home repair and landscaping.

I understand that the decision maker's job is to broadcast whatever brings in viewers. Just kinda wish they'd go ahead and do a name change when they get to the point that their name is no longer relevant to what they broadcast, like the Nashville Network did. (For those who don't recall, Spike used to be a country music station.)

The Learning Channel hasn't called itself that in ages anyway and is now, and has been for about ten years, just TLC. It's a shame, really--they played Connections once when I was a kid. The whole thing. In one sitting. I have fond memories of watching it with my family. Now, they play that dreadful What Not to Wear, where you spend three days being insulted by those horrible people who were so inexplicable popular in high school.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Wow. Guess that just shows how long it's been since they aired anything that caught my interest. The only reason I know anything at all about what they show these days is that they're close to other channels I do watch on DirecTV's guide....

OH, I've watched it. And I watch pretty much anything on the subject. But, being objective, I can pick out the parts that have merit, and those that don't. And most don't once you do a little research on your own.

I have always been interested in the Piri Reese Map since I read Colin Wilson's The Atlantis Blueprint. The book goes on and on about the similarities of the Map's depiction of Antartica, and how the British Survey of the land beneath the ice matches it exactly. However, a little research shows that the matchup isnt quite that good, and notes by the cartographer indicate that the land is "hot, and full of large snakes." Doesn't sound too much like Antartica, does it?

Maybe penguins look like snakes to an alien?

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"I'm as accurate as any psychic. And I'm a cartoon!" -- Squidward

"Arrrgh, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress!" -- Bender

So you're giving creedence to people like Erich Von Daniken, George Noory, and Georgio Tsoukalos, who look at a statuette with a headdress on and say, "That's an astronaut's helmet."

To be fair to THETULLSTER, one has to admit that many of these kinds of "documentaries" are produced and presented in a matter fact way that can be very convincing for people who are not familiar with the subject.

Even people with a scientific background can be swayed by such shows. Even if the presentation raises doubts in general, it's hard to say what parts are bull.

The mixture of fact, fiction, over-exaggeration, omission, naïveté, and outright foolishness can be misleading.

I recently saw a "documentary" about the Ostrogoths and another about (Emperor) Henry IV, and all I could say through both was "yes, kind of, but ...". I'm guessing that most anybody with little knowledge of middle first/early second AD millenium European history would believe most of the presentation, as given.

The more sensationalist shows can be much worse and like fly paper for young people who are interested in more than just parties and drugs but haven't been exposed to scientific methodology and the extreme caution and self-criticism that go with it.

@THETULLSTER

If you're really interested in the subject, then take the time to do some independent reading on it. Just believing a TV show will leave you with a lot of egg on your face.

You may find out that the results of serious research can be much more fascinating than the sensationalist TV presentation.

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Credis alienos extraterrenos terram visitare? Credis velocitatem super celeritatem lucis?
Credis itineres inter tempores? O tu stulte, aquire vitam.

what about the Mayans disappearing in 500 BC

The Mayans flourished between 300 and 900AD, were still around when the Spanish arrived in the 16th century.

Grant Hutchison

For that matter, the Mayan people are still very much around, still maintaining parts of their culture and language.

Well, it is hard to understand those, especially since those programs never show, and it's hard to find online, the entire collection of those little objects.
They run the gamut from being obviously bugs and flying fish, to truly heavily decorated shapes.

I'll ask again - have you looked at any of the links that have been given to you that discuss the Piri Reis map? You still haven't confirmed that is what you are referring to but I think it's a pretty safe bet at this point.

You asked us for our opinion, but your subsequent comments have just consisted of ignoring any specific replies and restating your belief that we would all have our minds changed if we watched a TV program. Why ask us if you have no intention of responding to what we actually write?

I appreciated those links, thanks very much. It was very insightful and a great counterbalance between the claims of Charles Hapgood, as well as Colin Wilson and Rand Al-Flem-Ath's book, The Atlantis Blueprint. It was a great read, has some good points, but some of the conclusions are highly speculative. I do reccomend it, just dont take the "facts" in there (aka piri reese) as real truth unless you do your own investigation.

I also like Graham Hancock's books, but also take his findings with a grain of salt.

Eric VonDaiken is like reading the funny papers. Enjoyable, but if you beleive half of what he writes we are run over daily by aliens. I read him for the same reason my wife reads gossip magazines - entertainment value.

Enjoyable?

If you enjoy high blood pressure and a splitting migrane headache, then maybe.

If you ask me, von Däniken belongs in prison for mass fraud.

If his books are good for anything, then as toilet paper. Mentally pre-soiled toilet paper.

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Credis alienos extraterrenos terram visitare? Credis velocitatem super celeritatem lucis?
Credis itineres inter tempores? O tu stulte, aquire vitam.