Stop the mystery links, please

[01101001]

Please, folks, if you're giving your fellow members a link to something on the Web that you think they may wish to view, try to precis it in a line or two. Summarize the contents. Give a compelling reason for visiting it if you can. Perhaps, provide a few key sentences from the article as a sample. At the very least, label the link with something meaningful.

It is not charming to just throw a link up, maybe with a few words of text, that make it seem like a puzzle to be solved. We're not much interested, thanks.

Some of us read other parts of the Web, and other media, already. If you can save us a trip to view something of which we are already aware, you are nice. If you can describe a link's contents so that we might know we will be disappointed if we follow it, you are thoughtful. If you summarize so well that the gist comes through without our having to visit, you are kind.

Think of your readers. Be enlightening.

Thanks.

[Serenitude]

Seconded.

[NEOWatcher]

Originally Posted by Serenitude

Seconded.

Me to...absolutely.

First: We have no clue what to expect and many of us are in a position where questionable sites lead to drastic results.

Second: For someone still on dial-up or other slow connection may not have the bandwith to walk around aimlessly.

Third: We are not all impressed by the same things. What may impress me, may not impress you. Tell us why it's cool (in context of course)

[agingjb]

Too true. I really don't like following links unless I've some idea what's there. So, mostly I don't.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by agingjb

Too true. I really don't like following links unless I've some idea what's there. So, mostly I don't.

Ditto.
This is especially true for videos and other bandwidth hungry sites, and especially for those of us who use a dial-up connection.

[Argos]

Not to mention security problems...

[Tucson_Tim]

Originally Posted by Swift

a dial-up connection.

What is that?

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Tucson_Tim

What is that?

It's what makes your internet connection more like an i---n---t---e---r---n---e---t--- ---c---o---n---n---e---c---#### .... NO CARRIER...

[Tucson_Tim]

Originally Posted by Moose

It's what makes your internet connection more like an i---n---t---e---r---n---e---t--- ---c---o---n---n---e---c---#### .... NO CARRIER...

Yes, I do remember. I'm spoiled now.

[nauthiz]

What's the opinion on "wiki-style" hyperlinking of words or phrases within a paragraph? That's the way I tend to do it.

[NEOWatcher]

Originally Posted by nauthiz

What's the opinion on "wiki-style" hyperlinking of words or phrases within a paragraph? That's the way I tend to do it.

As long as the context helps with why I would want to click it, I see no problem. I tend to do it that way myself, but usually with something like "over here is the..."

[Tucson_Tim]

Originally Posted by nauthiz

What's the opinion on "wiki-style" hyperlinking of words or phrases within a paragraph? That's the way I tend to do it.

I like it but there is one problem with it: Unless I "quote" the post with the link, I don't know what website I'm being directed to.

[nauthiz]

Originally Posted by Tucson_Tim

I like it but there is one problem with it: Unless I "quote" the post with the link, I don't know what website I'm being directed to.

Ah, that didn't even occur to me. I've been using a browser that shows link URLs in the status bar when you hover the mouse over them. What about including the link's domain (bautforum.com) in parenthesis after the link text?

[Tucson_Tim]

Originally Posted by nauthiz

Ah, that didn't even occur to me. I've been using a browser that shows link URLs in the status bar when you hover the mouse over them. What about including the link's domain (bautforum.com) in parenthesis after the link text?

Seems like more work for the poster. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining.

[nauthiz]

Well, maybe just assume it's a Wikipedia article that explains the word I'm linking since that's usually what I'm doing in cases like that, anyway.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by nauthiz

Ah, that didn't even occur to me. I've been using a browser that shows link URLs in the status bar when you hover the mouse over them. What about including the link's domain (bautforum.com) in parenthesis after the link text?

I often do something similar to that, but more commonly will do something like this link at BAUTforum.com.

I do sometimes just give a bunch of links without such an explanation, just something like Link1, but it is usually as part of references to a larger posting I'm making (sort like references at the end of a paper). And as you said nauthiz, the browser usually will give you the details of the link if you put the cursor over it (IE7 does).

[Tucson_Tim]

Originally Posted by Swift

. . .the browser usually will give you the details of the link if you put the cursor over it (IE7 does).

IE6 does not - unless its a configuration parm somewhere.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Tucson_Tim

IE6 does not - unless its a configuration parm somewhere.

My bad and my good... (huh!). I actually have IE6 at work (I didn't check it until you mentioned it) and it tells you what the link is at the bottom, so there must be a way to make this work in IE6. I don't recall ever forcing that configuration - our IT gods force such things.

[Tucson_Tim]

Originally Posted by Swift

My bad and my good... (huh!). I actually have IE6 at work (I didn't check it until you mentioned it) and it tells you what the link is at the bottom, so there must be a way to make this work in IE6. I don't recall ever forcing that configuration - our IT gods force such things.

My bad. It does show up at the bottom of the panel. I thought you guys were talking about a transient "popup" display.

Never mind!

[Fazor]

In my opinion, a good post with a link should leave the reader able to participate in any related discussion even without visiting the link. Only time I feel in a tough spot is when it's a short article I'm discussing and I feel that my quote is a majority of the article, then I start to worry about copywrite. I try to provide more detail about the origin of the article in those situations.

As for listing the domain, that's fine with me. I get the keyloggers and spyware to you all through javascript and embeded code in the pages anyway. Erm...I mean...yeah. They're always trusted sites. (j/k obviously, I'm proud of programming the "hello world!" tutorials, anything more advanced than that is out of my league ).

[NEOWatcher]

Originally Posted by Fazor

In my opinion, a good post with a link should leave the reader able to participate in any related discussion even without visiting the link.

I like that guideline... Of course that fits the ideal situation, and kind of hard to do when it's the video itself is cool. But; it's good to try.

Anyway, here's an example that is relevent to the discussion.

Starts off as "cool video"
Since lack of information is also one of my peeves, I participated to help in the description.
It generated a bit more explaination, which helped a great deal.

Unfortunately, by taking this route, I fear that some have abandon the thread already when they would have stuck around if some of the comments were made in the OP.

[Fazor]

I saw that post earlier. At least in that example the links were named to give one at least a vague idea of what the video was about.

And yes, oft when a thread starts by only saying "Check out this Video," I not only do not bother to watch it, but will not check back on the thread/discussion. Nothing against the poster, but it's hard to be interested in something if you don't know what it is. As you (or someone?) mentioned, I BAUT from work; I can't afford to blindly follow a link to some questionable site.

[Noclevername]

The threads themselves also often get mystery titles, but at least on BAUT forum you can roll-over them to get the first few lines. Which sometimes only reveals "Hey, check out this video!", but, hey, at least it's something...

[Neverfly]

Yall are straining at gnats at this point.

I think sometimes, some people on here are not happy unless they can complain about what other posters do.

And then call them rude if they don't do it.

Well, personally, I think it's pretty rude to insult a persons intelligence or tell them how YOU THINK that THEY should act.

If I see a mystery link- I have the INTELLECT and the Personal CHOICE as to whether or not to click it and find out. If im really curious first- i can simply hit the Quote button and see the URL directly.
I think I can spot Spam when I see it. I think i can tell what's bogus and what was posted by a legitimate member.

Heres a good example: (MYSTERY LINK FOR YOU HERE)
Mysterious Link
The OP provided a mystery link at the outset
Some member then posts a mystery link in GOOD HUMOR and FUN
Some other member posts complaining about the mystery link with a URL to this thread in the form of .. WHAT? A MYSTERY LINK!!
C'mon!
Ive seen the BA here do a mystery Link once in a while.
Ive seen the MODS here do a mystery Link once in a while.
Ive seen some of the people here suddenly stepping up to say "Here, Here" to the OP- do mystery links in the past too!!!

C'mon!

Don't Micro-Manage a forum composed of thousands of people!

[01101001]

Originally Posted by Neverfly

I think sometimes, some people on here are not happy unless they can complain about what other posters do.

... he complains.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

And then call them rude if they don't do it.

Cite please. Where?

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Well, personally, I think it's pretty rude to insult a persons intelligence or tell them how YOU THINK that THEY should act.

Who do you think is rude? Who insulted someone's intelligence? Is asking people politely to act some way rude now? What are you doing this very moment? Are you being rude?

Originally Posted by Neverfly

If I see a mystery link- I have the INTELLECT and the Personal CHOICE as to whether or not to click it and find out. If im really curious first- i can simply hit the Quote button and see the URL directly.
I think I can spot Spam when I see it. I think i can tell what's bogus and what was posted by a legitimate member.

Who are you saying doesn't have that intellect?

Some of us just like to see better writing, and aren't afraid to ask for it -- if you don't mind.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Ive seen the BA here do a mystery Link once in a while.

I'd ask the BA to please not do that. It's not considerate of his readers.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Ive seen the MODS here do a mystery Link once in a while.

I'd ask the moderators to please not do that. It's not considerate of their readers.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Ive seen some of the people here suddenly stepping up to say "Here, Here" to the OP- do mystery links in the past too!!!

Oh, no!

I'd ask the them to please not do that. It's not considerate of their readers.

If you see me doing it -- I'm sure I have; I get lazy sometimes -- please ask me not to do that. It's not considerate of my readers.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Don't Micro-Manage a forum composed of thousands of people!

Did we ask for punishment? Did we ask for a rule? No. We politely asked for a favor, and gave our reasons. If you can't deliver, if you don't want to be considerate of your readers, then keep doing what you do. I can't stop you.

[Van Rijn]

Originally Posted by 01101001

If you see me doing it -- I'm sure I have; I get lazy sometimes -- please ask me not to do that. It's not considerate of my readers.

I've done it too. I usually remember to go back and add some explanation, but I've forgotten sometimes. The fact that folks make a point of it (like this thread) helps me to remember. For myself, I don't usually click on a link unless I have some idea what is going to be there. I'm sure many others do too, so those who post mystery links shouldn't be surprised when they are ignored.

[Neverfly]

You took my whole post apart and im not really sure why... But...

I respond. HOPEFULLY I wont sound ANGRY or like im attacking ANYONE. Im simply stating my case- Dont take it personally ( though some moments you may Want to...)

Originally Posted by 01101001

Cite please. Where?

I KNOW this BOARD THINKS they are all scientific but...
Demanding evidence is all fine and good- We ALL know- that it is THERE.
So I'm not going to bother going through God only knows how many posts to find what you already Know is there. You want it- find it yourself.

Originally Posted by 01101001

Who do you think is rude? Who insulted someone's intelligence? Is asking people politely to act some way rude now? What are you doing this very moment? Are you being rude?

EXCELLENT point. And Im gonna give a Long Winded and Repetitive answer.
A person MAY NOT intend to be rude- to be rude.
I have been Accused of being "Rude" and not following "netiquette" (what a CUTE word because instead of using Bold or Italics- I use caps.
It isn't "proper" english
But I made a Stand- Because I don't CARE that it isn't PROPER English- it IS my style... It's MY WAY. I really Do Not Care if others do it my way or not. Because this is just an Internet FORUM. Not a college thesis. Im not out to impress the masses.
What right they have to make "logical" or "reasonable" Demands does anyone have? SO many people post here- all post with their OWN style. Other people here - use caps and hyphens like I do. Others don't speak english very well- Like Suntrack. Others use English in the manner it is used Locally in their area.
To IMPLY that I don't know Proper English because i don't Bother to create a Masterpiece of perfection on a Simple little Internet Forum Post- which was a THOUGHT quickly and hurredly scrawled out before my tired brain wandered off to other topics and i forgot..- Is to Insult my intelligence and is rude.

Am I being rude?
Maybe...
Do I have a good reason for being so?
I think so.

Originally Posted by 01101001

Who are you saying doesn't have that intellect?

I just answered this above but Ill answer again...In fact, I'll put it in BOLD
I didnt say anyone doesnt have intellect. I said that we DO Have intellect as the readers here.
Respecting that fact means not micro-managing them or telling them How to Write- How to Post- How to state their Own personal Opinion,
then claiming that they are being inconsiderate if they don't do it Your Way.

Originally Posted by 01101001

Some of us just like to see better writing, and aren't afraid to ask for it -- if you don't mind.

01101001, to SEE better writing is good.
To ask of it from your CHILDREN or your STUDENTS is good. Applied in the PROPER setting.
But we are adults here...
This is NOT the proper setting
As scientifically as you discuss- this is NOT a scientific Journal and we are NOT getting Graded on our posts.
Accept some Personal Responsibility in that you have decided to read here- take it or leave it. You cant Expect or ask a person to do it Your Way to Make YOU happy.
This is just ONE issue where I see people doing this- THIS thread exists on THIS topic- it SEEMS Reasonable! BUT!... but its a common theme on BAUT. People constantly are demanding others to do it THEIR way.

You can ASK a person politely- that is fine- but starting a thread complaining about people not doing what YOU THINK- what YOU WANT them to do.. seems.. hmmm..
How Far can you GO? In asking other people to do what makes YOU happy?
How far can you go in thinking OUR job- is to think of all these mundane little details that Everyone asks us to do? I can barely keep up with my own wnats- much less everyone elses

Originally Posted by 01101001

I'd ask the BA to please not do that. It's not considerate of his readers.
I'd ask the moderators to please not do that. It's not considerate of their readers.
Oh, no!
I'd ask the them to please not do that. It's not considerate of their readers.

Why is it not considerate? Who are you to decide? How Much of what everyone does- could be considered inconsiderate?
If i end my sentences
without using periods
am I now being INCONSIDERATE? am i straining your eyeballs?
How much of others peoples problems should become MY problem?

How do we KNOW when we are getting to the point of asking Trivial Details?

The Mystery Links never bothered me in the least.
You all give (again) "reasonable" and "logical" reasons why.
One even said that he is at work and cant just go clicking on things. Well, whats he doing reading a forum at work anyway? If there WAS a good description of what the link was- would he STILL be able to click on it at work? Does it make it OK to click on it at work?

One person said he doesnt need to be bothered to click a link.
Well if he's too lazy to click a link- then who'se problem is that?

Another said that some people have slow speed internet connections. Well, they made the CHOICE to have that connection- and even if they didnt HAVE much of a choice- they are WELL AWARE of their OWN internet speed connection and what it means to them. Why should THEIR CHOICES become MY problem?!? Why should I make it My Problem at the threat of being called "inconsiderate" if I don't?? it SOUNDS reasonable- But after you have asked me to do enough things- im SWAMPED with all the "considerate things" im "Supposed" to do for other people that im forgetting half of what I was trying to do in the first place.
Like the Devils Advocate- I'm rather quick to stand up (TRUE SKEPTIC)
and say "HOLD ON!! Lets think about this!"
I once worked for a company that gave "reasonable" and "logical" explanations for the policy changes and finance changes they slowly kept making.. and we kept accepting these "reasonable" and "logical" explanations until finally, we realized we were constricted, controlled and being Nickle and Dimed to death.
But it was too late to make a stand- the company had incorporated all these policies over the years- little by little- like the frog in slowly heated water- not jumping out because it didnt realize the temperature had risen.

Originally Posted by 01101001

If you see me doing it -- I'm sure I have; I get lazy sometimes -- please ask me not to do that. It's not considerate of my readers.

If i see you doing it- It won't bother me in the least.
If it bothers you so much- Im sure you will catch yourself.
If you have a lazy day- MORE POWER TO YOU- its Your computer- Your post- Your statement - Your internet
Please feel free to have your own style. Diversity can be a good thing sometimes.

Originally Posted by 01101001

Did we ask for punishment? Did we ask for a rule? No. We politely asked for a favor, and gave our reasons. If you can't deliver, if you don't want to be considerate of your readers, then keep doing what you do. I can't stop you.

I argue that it isnt "inconsiderate"
AT ALL.
Its not just THIS issue. I have seen SO many points raised that you feel suffocated by all these peoples opinions about what others should do.
Personally - Until this previous post in this thread. I have NEVER POSTED a mystery link before.

And How long will it be? BEFORE it IS raised as an issue to MAKE it a Rule?!
How many Laws nitpick and micro-manage our daily lives today? That they make these things simply to make MONEY off the citizens- but the "Logical" and "reasonable" explanation for it is:
"We Do It For Your Safety"
Yeah, as a grown man - I am totally incapable of watching my own safety.

Im not attacking YOU of all people, 01101001. If I was asked about you, I would speak highly of you, your posts, your intellect.
Im attacking this whole IDEA, the gathered collection of this thread and its responses.
And for good reason- Think about it.
SOMEONE needs to be the "Bad Guy" and stand up and speak out sometimes.
To use your word- Im not afraid to do it.
I really Don't Care if yall don't like me (albeit you don't know me at all) or have a low opinion of me- because im quick to speak out.
And before you turn my words around on me like you did in your last post:
I can JUST as Easily
ASK YOU to be Considerate of peoples desire to post Mystery Links and Respect their Reasons for making them.
And say that you are being inconsiderate if you vocally state that you don't like it.
Word play isnt going to make any good points.

[Neverfly]

It was probably VERY inconsiderate of me to make such a LONG post.
I'm ashamed.
I'll ask myself to not do that again.

ETA: For those of you who STILL DOn't get where Im comming from
READ MY QUOTE!

[01101001]

Originally Posted by Neverfly

I can JUST as Easily
ASK YOU to be Considerate of peoples desire to post Mystery Links and Respect their Reasons for making them.
And say that you are being inconsiderate if you vocally state that you don't like it.
Word play isnt going to make any good points.

I am considerate of people's reasons for writing poorly. Some don't know better. Some are lazy. Some don't care. I simply ask them please not to do it. I ask them to be considerate of their readers -- with whom they are trying to communicate. It's a writer's duty.

I think you're wrong. Having preferences is not a bad thing. Stating preferences isn't bad. Desiring quality in the writing of fellow members is not disrespecting them. Nor is politely asking for it. Sorry. I don't intend to stop. I hope no one else does either.

[Neverfly]

What defines quality?
Where do you draw the line between when a person has given "poor quality" (on an internet post ... sheesh...) and where they have given such terrible quality that it's inconsiderate?

I hate to drag a person or name into this but..
Suntracks posts are sometimes VERY hard to decipher. Its ok though.. because He is learning english- it isnt his first language- So i give him credit where it is due- and rather than post in threads or make a thread saying " Learn to speak English Fluently or don't post - or if you DO post ill ignore it because its inconsiderate"

Ill ACCEPT the personal responsibility to understand him, give credit to the points he makes and try to read what he writes without condemning him for not having been born in an english speaking country.

Suntrack.. Forgive me <wink>

But it's a good example.
In fact
ALL those posters here that make Typoes? are being inconsiderate to me. I demand wuality. They need to go back and read and re-read- and perhaps hire an editor to ensure that I don't have to struggle and strain to figure out what their typo meant- it inconveniences my day- and was inconsiderate of them to not catch their own typo.
( editor to the front! Please correct the flaws in the above paragraph! wuality isn't even a word!)

01101001
Asking for quality is GOOD. And I AGREE with demanding quality. I demand it from customer service. I demand it from a mechanic. I demand it from my electric company- car maker- grocery store...
Oh WAIT! I'm PAYING for all these things! sheesh.. what was I thinkin'?

Where, again. does a person draw the line? How far does it go before a person is nitpicking? Straining at gnats over trivial details? Can you JUSTIFY it by saying "this is how proper english is supposed to be"
Can i get college credit for reading the BAUT forum?
To be honest- that justification is HARD to refute.
I mean who WOULDN'T say that demanding quality is a good thing right?
hmmmm...
how far does it go..........?

If people think im an inconsiderate person because i posted a link without a description- that they could have gone and read-
PAY me for my posts- and ill deliver the quality

ETA:01101001 said

I am considerate of people's reasons for writing poorly. Some don't know better. Some are lazy. Some don't care. I simply ask them please not to do it. I ask them to be considerate of their readers -- with whom they are trying to communicate. It's a writer's duty.

It doesn't sound like you are being "considerate" if you are judging them as ignorant (don't know better) or "lazy" (dont care or lazy)

And it's a WRITERS DUTY!?!?!?

we are all WRITERS now?! I post on an internet forum and GREAT! Now im an AUTHOR! What the HECK is that It's a Writers duty STUFF!?!?
C'mon!
It MAY be a WRITERS duty! if he's authoring BOOKS that hes SELLING!
We are NOT writers here.