Font size

[Jeff Root]

I'm asking this question to help me design my own web pages.

BAUT sets the font size to something smaller than the browser's
default "medium" size. Google search results and Google Groups,
among many others, also use a font size smaller than the browser
default. I have no problem with that, but can anyone explain
why it is done, and why I haven't seen any complaints about it
from the HTML police? They always said to let the user decide
what font size to use. I'm wondering: If BAUT and Google can
get away with controlling the font size, why shouldn't I do the
same on my own pages?

I don't want to control it as tightly as BAUT does, though:
BAUT doesn't let users change the size of most text at all!
Why? I would simply change the base size, and the user could
still adjust the actual displayed size as needed.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[geonuc]

I wasn't aware of the website controls over font size. But have you been to forums where users select their own font? It's a screaming mess.

[Jeff Root]

geonuc,

By "user" I mean a person reading an HTML page, not a poster. Posters on
BAUT can change the font size of text within their posts. That's not what
I'm asking about.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[geonuc]

Sorry, misunderstood. I'm ignorant of such matters.

[Nick Theodorakis]

Originally Posted by Jeff Root

I'm asking this question to help me design my own web pages.

BAUT sets the font size to something smaller than the browser's
default "medium" size. Google search results and Google Groups,
among many others, also use a font size smaller than the browser
default. I have no problem with that, but can anyone explain
why it is done, and why I haven't seen any complaints about it
from the HTML police? They always said to let the user decide
what font size to use. I'm wondering: If BAUT and Google can
get away with controlling the font size, why shouldn't I do the
same on my own pages?

I don't want to control it as tightly as BAUT does, though:
BAUT doesn't let users change the size of most text at all!
Why? I would simply change the base size, and the user could
still adjust the actual displayed size as needed.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

First of all, the BAUT forum uses "canned" board software called vbulletin that is also used by many other forums, and they all look pretty similar, so I suspect that admins don't have a lot of control over the user interface.

Your instincts are correct in that the user ought to have some control over the web page appearance, especially for font sizes. I don't know which HTML police you drink coffee with, but the ones on some of the web authoring usenet groups are quite vocal on this point.

I haven't looked at code for vbulletin, so I suspect that the text is sized in px units, which makes it difficult for IE users to resize the text. Some people would consider this a serious accessibility problem. Fortunately, Firefox and Opera (and probably some others) do allow users to resize text no matter how the size is specified. Moreover, Firefox (at least) also allows the user to specify a minimum font size.

If you want all users (including IE users) to have control, don't use px units but rather em or % units to suggest size. Many people (including myself) also recommend using the default (1 em or 100%, or even not specifying it at all) for the main body text.

Nick

[NEOWatcher]

Originally Posted by Jeff Root

I have no problem with that, but can anyone explain why it is done, and why I haven't seen any complaints about it
from the HTML police? They always said to let the user decide
what font size to use. I'm wondering: If BAUT and Google can
get away with controlling the font size, why shouldn't I do the
same on my own pages?

It's all a matter of looks.

If you can get your page to look acceptable for a variety of browser settings, then, by all means, go for it.

But; the reality of the situation is:
Most users have accept the default settings, so most people wouldn't notice.
Testing the different visualizations tends to get laborious.
It is always easier to design for a single look and layout.
Since most of the world controls thier look, then the HTML police would be too busy to even notice yours.

[Fazor]

At least with IE, you can hold Ctrl + MWheel Up/Down to zoom/shrink the page. When I design a website, I don't want the user to be able to change the font size because doing so also changes the page layout, which bugs me. I design the page to look a certian way--I don't like people changing that, but perhaps that's just the artist in me. I haven't designed a webpage in ages... maybe I'll go update my personal website when I get home.

[Nick Theodorakis]

Originally Posted by Fazor

At least with IE, you can hold Ctrl + MWheel Up/Down to zoom/shrink the page. When I design a website, I don't want the user to be able to change the font size because doing so also changes the page layout, which bugs me. I design the page to look a certian way--I don't like people changing that, but perhaps that's just the artist in me. I haven't designed a webpage in ages... maybe I'll go update my personal website when I get home.

It would really bug you to see me websurfing, then (at least at home, where I have my browser tweaked). I use Firefox with a bunch of addons. I have a minimum font size set. If I don't like the color or contrast of the text, I hit the "zap colors" bookmarklet. If I still don't like it, I hit "zap stylesheets." If I think an image is too small, I use the Image Zoom extension to make it bigger (which is really great for reading comics inline).

I think you should think less about a webpage as a fixed, static piece of art such as a painting or sculpture, but rather one that is filtered through the interaction or interpretation of another person, such as a symphony or a play.

Nick

[HenrikOlsen]

I expect one reason why the html police isn't going after the font size is that it isn't set in px, but in pt, so the browser scales the font differently depending on the screen's dpi.

Setting the font size in em's sounds utterly ludicrous to me, as the em is a unit sized relative to the current font size (normally the width of a lowercase "m").

[Nick Theodorakis]

Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen

....

Setting the font size in em's sounds utterly ludicrous to me, as the em is a unit sized relative to the current font size
...

I would consider that a plus, not a minus. Why not scale font sizes in accord with the user's chosen defaults?

Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen

....
(normally the width of a lowercase "m").

In CSS, the em is simply the height of the current font.

Nick

[Vanamonde]

Originally Posted by NEOWatcher

It's all a matter of looks...

<sigh> if only that was true. This one has fought the battle against bifocals and lost and now is resisting trifocals with all of my might. I wear bifocals when I am out and about and have a different single vision prescription for monitors.

Firefox's superior user interface (ctrl-+ is my friend!) actually allows me to read many pages without glasses!

For some reason, SciAm is one of the worst offenders - defaults to microprint, my friend crtl-+ will not work and I have to use their + and the column size is fixed. And their tool ('+') stop when the font is *almost* legible, but then I get about four or five words per line.

A WEB PAGE IS NOT A MAGAZINE!

I hate the commerical habit of fixing the column size and in fact I hate more than two columns on a web page, actually. One column like this fine forum where the text fills the screen is ideal.

Web text must flow.

Thank you for letting me get that off my chest.

If only I was young again.